Name: Norm Macdonald Talked About His Fake Memoir
Uploaded: 2023-01-23T14:46:29.000Z
Description: Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Norm Macdonald Talked About His Fake Memoir' from I'm not Norm on Comedy Buff. Published 2023-01-23. Transcript available.

Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Norm Macdonald Talked About His Fake Memoir' from I'm not Norm on Comedy Buff. Published 2023-01-23. Transcript available.

So Norm, your book, based on a true story, reads like a novelistic memoir. The
central narrative is reminiscent of Hunter S. Thompson's Fear and Loathing in
Las
Vegas, and you've got bits of Jack London, Steinbeck, and maybe just a dash of
Tolstoy sprinkled in there for good measure. I'm curious about what you were
hoping to accomplish with the book. Do you see it as kind of a parody of
celebrity memoirs, an homage to your favorite authors, or is it something else
entirely? No, what I wanted to do was make the greatest comic novel of all
time because I love reading, but when it comes to comedy, it's incredibly hard
to
write comedy. You know Mark Twain is funny? Oh, yeah. To an extent he's funny.
John
Kennedy O'Toole's novel was funny. A Confederacy of Dunces, yeah. To an extent
it
was funny, but it wasn't gut-busting funny. So I wanted to make a book that was,
I
knew I couldn't make it as strong as my standup. First of all, it's fiction. It
really bothers me that it's out of the non-fiction. New York Times considers it
non-fiction because it's ridiculous. And I've had arguments with them because,
just
because it says a memoir on the title is meaningless. You know, that's just the
title. Anyways, no, that's what I was aiming to do, was to write the funniest
novel that's
ever been written. Yeah, gut-busting. Yeah. One of the great things about the
book is
that it's unlike any other works of comedy I've ever encountered, whereas a lot
of books
by celebrities are confessional, telling the story behind the story. With this
book, you
turn that model on its head, you'll take a kernel of truth and spin it into a
ridiculous story,
like the time you worked on SNL and ended up with a 40-year prison sentence for
contracting
a hitman to kill a writer. And some reviewers have said the book ridicules
audiences looking
for some juicy gossip. Does that criticism hold any water for you? Is that
something you were
trying to do? No, I wasn't trying to do it, but I did immediately understand
that backstage
holds nothing. Like in show business, backstage is just you're eating a
sandwich trying to figure
out what to do onstage. So, you know, onstage is the real thing. And so what I
was trying to do with
the book to make that point strongly was to make the book not backstage either,
but rather onstage.
I wanted to make the book a work, not talking about some other work, you know?
Mm-hmm. A novel as opposed to nonfiction. Yeah. And my sense is that maybe
another reason why you
wanted to turn your life into this work of fiction is because you're not a fan
of confessional comedy,
right? I've read that somewhere.
Oh, no, I'm not. No, this is a new thing that I, you know, that I didn't even
know about until a couple
of years ago. And I started noticing it in clubs, you know, and it was madding.
I didn't like it at all.
Why not?
Well, because I was always taught that the nature of art was to conceal, not to
reveal.
When people confess things and they're told how brave they are, you know,
because they have
cancer or something and they talk about it. Well, everyone has cancer. I mean,
it's not rare at all.
The brave thing to do if you have cancer is to not talk about it, is to just
have it
and keep it a secret and don't burden anyone with it. All you're doing is
burdening people with those
things. You think so? You don't think it can ever be helpful to share this
story for other people
going through, in this case, going through cancer, dealing with cancer? You don't
think-
It might be, but I certainly doubt that's its intent. Its intent is to bask in
the pity.
So it's kind of narcissistic, would it be fair to say almost?
It's incredibly, incredibly narcissistic. These are private things.
Yeah. Have you ever read Nick Tosh's 1992 biography of Dean Martin?
Yes.
You have?
Dino.
Yeah. Excellent. Dino living high in the dirty business of dreams.
The reason I ask is because you've read it, you know this, but our listeners
won't know this.
One of Tosh's central arguments in the book is that Dean Martin approached his
life and career with
this thing called "menifrigissimo," an Italian word meaning "I don't give an F."
And it seems to me that you have a lot of that same spirit of "menifrigissimo,"
and that is a big part of
your appeal and success. I would even go so far as to say that you could be
described as the Dean
Martin of stand-up comedy. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say that Dean
Martin is the Norm
McDonald of male vocalists. What do you think? Do you think you've got the "menifrigissimo"
going on?
Dean Martin is my hero of all time. He's like my number one guy.
Really?
Dean Martin: When I was a little kid, I would watch the Dean Martin show.
Dean Martin: Sure. "Gold Diggers," him coming down the fire pole?
Dean Martin: Yes.
Dean Martin: Yeah.
Dean Martin: And something resonated with me that everything else seemed false,
but he seemed real within that false framework. I always remember this sketch
he did
because he would get giant stars on the show. So it was him and Ruth Buzzy.
They're in a cold water flat.
They're supposed to be a couple. And she's in complete Ruth Buzzy garb with the
handbag and everything.
Dean Martin: Yeah, yeah. The old lady Ruth scene that she does Gladys, I think
the name was,
that she would do with Artie Johnson on laughing.
Dean Martin: Exactly. And Dean Martin is wearing a tuxedo.
Dean Martin: Yeah.
Dean Martin: The same tuxedo that he had on for the opening monologue.
Dean Martin: Yeah, yeah.
Dean Martin: And he's just standing reading from a card, not even looking at
her,
Dean Martin: And she's acting up an awful storm, you know. There's a knock on
the door. It's Sinatra,
who's also wearing a tux. Oh, they also have a drink and a cigarette in their
hands.
Dean Martin: Oh, of course.
Dean Martin: So they walk in, they do the sketch, and then Dean Martin sees
something. I'll never
forget this. He starts laughing and he walks up and he looks at the cue card,
you know,
Dean Martin: And he picks it up and starts reading it and laughing at how funny
that because he's never
seen it before. So I don't know. It's sort of dereliction of duty in a way you
could say, but
to me, it was hysterical as a child. So yeah, Dean Martin was a gigantic
influence in my life.
It's funny that you stumbled onto that.
Dean Martin: So Dean Martin's this huge influence. Is that the thing you took,
the thing that I see in
a lot of your comedy, the 'Menefrigissimo', the 'I don't give an F' attitude?
Dean Martin: Yes. I stole that from Dean Martin, note for note.
Dean Martin: Wow. Okay.
Dean Martin: But I love that thing. I forgot that phrase. What do you call it?
Dean Martin: 'Menefrigissimo'. That's what Tasha just calls it. It's a real
word. It's like,
actually, I looked it up. It's in a wictionary.
Dean Martin: Wow.
Dean Martin: Yeah. It's fun to say.
Dean Martin: 'Menefrigissimo'. Yeah. I would order that.
Dean Martin: Yeah.
Dean Martin: Yeah, 'Menefrigissimo' with a little 'R' and 'R' on the side.
Dean Martin: Yeah.
Dean Martin: I would order it too.
Dean Martin: 'Menefrigissimo'. I love that.
Dean Martin: So, something else I read in terms of just writing a joke,
that one of the things you often aspire to is you like to have a setup and
punchline that are as
close together as possible in terms of the wording. Right?
Dean Martin: Yeah. Well, that was something that I tried to do on Weekend
Update specifically,
not in stand-up. Because it was a parody of the news, it needed to have the
setup be a very rigidly
written sentence that a newsman would say, exactly like a newsman would say.
Since it had that,
I thought the punchline and the setup, if they were exactly the same, would be
great because then
you're just pointing out the absurdity of the setup. Oftentimes, in a joke, I
would do the setup
and everyone would laugh and then you don't even have to go on because you can't
comment on something
that everybody already finds ridiculous and funny. Yeah. Can you give me an
example? Is there a joke
that's come the closest? Something that you told on Weekend Update that came
closest to the setup and
punchline almost matching word for word? Yes, there was one joke. Lyle Lovett
and Julie Roberts are
getting divorced. The reason Insider's site is that she's Julie Roberts and he's
Lyle Lovett.
Dean Martin: Yeah, that's great because they seem like such an odd couple. So
yeah, you use the newsman
set up and then yeah, that is a classic. What is the biggest laugh you ever got?
Like you've gotten
thousands, I guess, in all the years you've been doing stand-up. Is there one
moment that you can
point to as one of the biggest laughs or the most satisfying laughs you ever
got? No, I can't because
this is why. Because in live stand-up, this is something I learned also.
Because I was always afraid to
speak to the audience and I also thought it was very hackneyed to speak to the
audience. Oh,
like to interact with them? Yes, to interact with the crowd. And so I would
just stare into the lights
and do my jokes. As time went on and I gained a little maturity, I understood
it was the only fear
that stopped me from talking to the audience and that that's what the audience
loves. That's what makes
it a live event. Otherwise, they could just watch it on YouTube, you know. They
could just watch your act or
just read your act off a piece of paper. So what they want is interaction. So
that's why I can't cite
the biggest laugh because that's where the biggest laugh would come organically
out of a conversation
with people. Yeah. I think about laughter quite a bit. And when you say like
the biggest laugh,
I find it very interesting. I was just thinking about this last week. The
biggest laughs you'll ever hear
in life are like at a Thanksgiving dinner with a bunch of loved ones. And
nothing funny is said,
you know. But there's this laughter that's going through the room. And it just
comes from love.
So I've been talking about love a lot in my act lately because I find that to
be a taboo subject.
I find that surprising. Why do you find love to be a taboo subject?
Well, no one talks about it. You know, no one finds any comedy in it. And yet,
it's central to
everything there is. Do you think because so much of comedy is based on
conflict, love is difficult to
turn into jokes? Yeah, it's very difficult. Can you give me an example of a
joke about love that you've
told that you're particularly happy with? Well, I talk about how much we don't
love, you know,
and how we can walk beside a homeless guy that's pleading for money and ignore
him and stuff.
I talk about like how a dog can love. And that's all it does, really, is love.
You know, we can't even
keep up with the dog. But this sounds not funny at all, as I say it. But when I
say it in a club,
it catches people off guard. That's what it does. Because you're not supposed
to be talking about
that. You're supposed to be cynical. And I used to be cynical. I used to be a
very cynical person.
So when did you stop being such a cynical person? What was the turning point?
I don't know. Just as I aged, just as anybody grows, you know? Yeah.
Just constant introspection and seeing that what you do maybe is hollow or
something. And so you have
to change, change, change all the time. Do you see or have you seen your work
as a standup comedian as hollow?
Yeah. My earlier work. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're constantly improving and
growing.
Yeah. I talked of nothing of consequence or significance. I do love comics that
talk about
minutiae. Like there's a comic named Brian Regan that I love and Jerry Seinfeld.
Sure. Yeah. The master of it. And in some ways, I think those guys are the
deepest of anybody because
they talk about the stuff of life, you know, the little things. Yeah. Life is
made up of the details.
Yeah, exactly. So I certainly love that. But I guess my mind goes toward the
more ethereal,
especially as of late. You know, I live alone. I think a lot. So I sort of live
in a fantasy world more
than a... I wouldn't know what's inside a grocery store. It has its pros and
cons to live in a fantasy
world. It has its pros and cons. Yeah. You're going to lose your mind. That's
the con. Yeah.
But the pro is everything turns out all right.
Norm Macdonald is a stand-up comedian and a fictional memoirist. His new book
is called
based on a true story, a memoir. His new stand-up special debuts on Netflix on
Tuesday, May 9th.
It's called Norm Macdonald, Hitler's dog, gossip, and...
Oh, yeah. I thought this was a memoir. I thought this was...
No. No, it only says a memoir on it, but it's a novel. I don't know. So,
I'm, you know, I was angry when it was in the fiction, non-fiction. Yeah.
Because it's about memoir. It says a memoir doesn't mean anything. Right.
It's like if you, you know, about Grapes of Wrath, you're like, "Hey, there's
no grapes."
Yeah. Or you put it in the grape section.
That's smart. Yeah.
Then everybody will find Grapes of Wrath. Yeah.
People that like grapes. Okay, listen.

Norm Macdonald Talked About His Fake Memoir

So Norm, your book, based on a true story, reads like a novelistic memoir. The
central narrative is reminiscent of Hunter S. Thompson's Fear and Loathing in
Las
Vegas, and you've got bits of Jack London, Steinbeck, and maybe just a dash of
Tolstoy sprinkled in there for good measure. I'm curious about what you were
hoping to accomplish with the book. Do you see it as kind of a parody of
celebrity memoirs, an homage to your favorite authors, or is it something else
entirely? No, what I wanted to do was make the greatest comic novel of all
time because I love reading, but when it comes to comedy, it's incredibly hard
to
write comedy. You know Mark Twain is funny? Oh, yeah. To an extent he's funny.
John
Kennedy O'Toole's novel was funny. A Confederacy of Dunces, yeah. To an extent
it
was funny, but it wasn't gut-busting funny. So I wanted to make a book that was,
I
knew I couldn't make it as strong as my standup. First of all, it's fiction. It
really bothers me that it's out of the non-fiction. New York Times considers it
non-fiction because it's ridiculous. And I've had arguments with them because,
just
because it says a memoir on the title is meaningless. You know, that's just the
title. Anyways, no, that's what I was aiming to do, was to write the funniest
novel that's
ever been written. Yeah, gut-busting. Yeah. One of the great things about the
book is
that it's unlike any other works of comedy I've ever encountered, whereas a lot
of books
by celebrities are confessional, telling the story behind the story. With this
book, you
turn that model on its head, you'll take a kernel of truth and spin it into a
ridiculous story,
like the time you worked on SNL and ended up with a 40-year prison sentence for
contracting
a hitman to kill a writer. And some reviewers have said the book ridicules
audiences looking
for some juicy gossip. Does that criticism hold any water for you? Is that
something you were
trying to do? No, I wasn't trying to do it, but I did immediately understand
that backstage
holds nothing. Like in show business, backstage is just you're eating a
sandwich trying to figure
out what to do onstage. So, you know, onstage is the real thing. And so what I
was trying to do with
the book to make that point strongly was to make the book not backstage either,
but rather onstage.
I wanted to make the book a work, not talking about some other work, you know?
Mm-hmm. A novel as opposed to nonfiction. Yeah. And my sense is that maybe
another reason why you
wanted to turn your life into this work of fiction is because you're not a fan
of confessional comedy,
right? I've read that somewhere.
Oh, no, I'm not. No, this is a new thing that I, you know, that I didn't even
know about until a couple
of years ago. And I started noticing it in clubs, you know, and it was madding.
I didn't like it at all.
Why not?
Well, because I was always taught that the nature of art was to conceal, not to
reveal.
When people confess things and they're told how brave they are, you know,
because they have
cancer or something and they talk about it. Well, everyone has cancer. I mean,
it's not rare at all.
The brave thing to do if you have cancer is to not talk about it, is to just
have it
and keep it a secret and don't burden anyone with it. All you're doing is
burdening people with those
things. You think so? You don't think it can ever be helpful to share this
story for other people
going through, in this case, going through cancer, dealing with cancer? You don't
think-
It might be, but I certainly doubt that's its intent. Its intent is to bask in
the pity.
So it's kind of narcissistic, would it be fair to say almost?
It's incredibly, incredibly narcissistic. These are private things.
Yeah. Have you ever read Nick Tosh's 1992 biography of Dean Martin?
Yes.
You have?
Dino.
Yeah. Excellent. Dino living high in the dirty business of dreams.
The reason I ask is because you've read it, you know this, but our listeners
won't know this.
One of Tosh's central arguments in the book is that Dean Martin approached his
life and career with
this thing called "menifrigissimo," an Italian word meaning "I don't give an F."
And it seems to me that you have a lot of that same spirit of "menifrigissimo,"
and that is a big part of
your appeal and success. I would even go so far as to say that you could be
described as the Dean
Martin of stand-up comedy. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say that Dean
Martin is the Norm
McDonald of male vocalists. What do you think? Do you think you've got the "menifrigissimo"
going on?
Dean Martin is my hero of all time. He's like my number one guy.
Really?
Dean Martin: When I was a little kid, I would watch the Dean Martin show.
Dean Martin: Sure. "Gold Diggers," him coming down the fire pole?
Dean Martin: Yes.
Dean Martin: Yeah.
Dean Martin: And something resonated with me that everything else seemed false,
but he seemed real within that false framework. I always remember this sketch
he did
because he would get giant stars on the show. So it was him and Ruth Buzzy.
They're in a cold water flat.
They're supposed to be a couple. And she's in complete Ruth Buzzy garb with the
handbag and everything.
Dean Martin: Yeah, yeah. The old lady Ruth scene that she does Gladys, I think
the name was,
that she would do with Artie Johnson on laughing.
Dean Martin: Exactly. And Dean Martin is wearing a tuxedo.
Dean Martin: Yeah.
Dean Martin: The same tuxedo that he had on for the opening monologue.
Dean Martin: Yeah, yeah.
Dean Martin: And he's just standing reading from a card, not even looking at
her,
Dean Martin: And she's acting up an awful storm, you know. There's a knock on
the door. It's Sinatra,
who's also wearing a tux. Oh, they also have a drink and a cigarette in their
hands.
Dean Martin: Oh, of course.
Dean Martin: So they walk in, they do the sketch, and then Dean Martin sees
something. I'll never
forget this. He starts laughing and he walks up and he looks at the cue card,
you know,
Dean Martin: And he picks it up and starts reading it and laughing at how funny
that because he's never
seen it before. So I don't know. It's sort of dereliction of duty in a way you
could say, but
to me, it was hysterical as a child. So yeah, Dean Martin was a gigantic
influence in my life.
It's funny that you stumbled onto that.
Dean Martin: So Dean Martin's this huge influence. Is that the thing you took,
the thing that I see in
a lot of your comedy, the 'Menefrigissimo', the 'I don't give an F' attitude?
Dean Martin: Yes. I stole that from Dean Martin, note for note.
Dean Martin: Wow. Okay.
Dean Martin: But I love that thing. I forgot that phrase. What do you call it?
Dean Martin: 'Menefrigissimo'. That's what Tasha just calls it. It's a real
word. It's like,
actually, I looked it up. It's in a wictionary.
Dean Martin: Wow.
Dean Martin: Yeah. It's fun to say.
Dean Martin: 'Menefrigissimo'. Yeah. I would order that.
Dean Martin: Yeah.
Dean Martin: Yeah, 'Menefrigissimo' with a little 'R' and 'R' on the side.
Dean Martin: Yeah.
Dean Martin: I would order it too.
Dean Martin: 'Menefrigissimo'. I love that.
Dean Martin: So, something else I read in terms of just writing a joke,
that one of the things you often aspire to is you like to have a setup and
punchline that are as
close together as possible in terms of the wording. Right?
Dean Martin: Yeah. Well, that was something that I tried to do on Weekend
Update specifically,
not in stand-up. Because it was a parody of the news, it needed to have the
setup be a very rigidly
written sentence that a newsman would say, exactly like a newsman would say.
Since it had that,
I thought the punchline and the setup, if they were exactly the same, would be
great because then
you're just pointing out the absurdity of the setup. Oftentimes, in a joke, I
would do the setup
and everyone would laugh and then you don't even have to go on because you can't
comment on something
that everybody already finds ridiculous and funny. Yeah. Can you give me an
example? Is there a joke
that's come the closest? Something that you told on Weekend Update that came
closest to the setup and
punchline almost matching word for word? Yes, there was one joke. Lyle Lovett
and Julie Roberts are
getting divorced. The reason Insider's site is that she's Julie Roberts and he's
Lyle Lovett.
Dean Martin: Yeah, that's great because they seem like such an odd couple. So
yeah, you use the newsman
set up and then yeah, that is a classic. What is the biggest laugh you ever got?
Like you've gotten
thousands, I guess, in all the years you've been doing stand-up. Is there one
moment that you can
point to as one of the biggest laughs or the most satisfying laughs you ever
got? No, I can't because
this is why. Because in live stand-up, this is something I learned also.
Because I was always afraid to
speak to the audience and I also thought it was very hackneyed to speak to the
audience. Oh,
like to interact with them? Yes, to interact with the crowd. And so I would
just stare into the lights
and do my jokes. As time went on and I gained a little maturity, I understood
it was the only fear
that stopped me from talking to the audience and that that's what the audience
loves. That's what makes
it a live event. Otherwise, they could just watch it on YouTube, you know. They
could just watch your act or
just read your act off a piece of paper. So what they want is interaction. So
that's why I can't cite
the biggest laugh because that's where the biggest laugh would come organically
out of a conversation
with people. Yeah. I think about laughter quite a bit. And when you say like
the biggest laugh,
I find it very interesting. I was just thinking about this last week. The
biggest laughs you'll ever hear
in life are like at a Thanksgiving dinner with a bunch of loved ones. And
nothing funny is said,
you know. But there's this laughter that's going through the room. And it just
comes from love.
So I've been talking about love a lot in my act lately because I find that to
be a taboo subject.
I find that surprising. Why do you find love to be a taboo subject?
Well, no one talks about it. You know, no one finds any comedy in it. And yet,
it's central to
everything there is. Do you think because so much of comedy is based on
conflict, love is difficult to
turn into jokes? Yeah, it's very difficult. Can you give me an example of a
joke about love that you've
told that you're particularly happy with? Well, I talk about how much we don't
love, you know,
and how we can walk beside a homeless guy that's pleading for money and ignore
him and stuff.
I talk about like how a dog can love. And that's all it does, really, is love.
You know, we can't even
keep up with the dog. But this sounds not funny at all, as I say it. But when I
say it in a club,
it catches people off guard. That's what it does. Because you're not supposed
to be talking about
that. You're supposed to be cynical. And I used to be cynical. I used to be a
very cynical person.
So when did you stop being such a cynical person? What was the turning point?
I don't know. Just as I aged, just as anybody grows, you know? Yeah.
Just constant introspection and seeing that what you do maybe is hollow or
something. And so you have
to change, change, change all the time. Do you see or have you seen your work
as a standup comedian as hollow?
Yeah. My earlier work. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're constantly improving and
growing.
Yeah. I talked of nothing of consequence or significance. I do love comics that
talk about
minutiae. Like there's a comic named Brian Regan that I love and Jerry Seinfeld.
Sure. Yeah. The master of it. And in some ways, I think those guys are the
deepest of anybody because
they talk about the stuff of life, you know, the little things. Yeah. Life is
made up of the details.
Yeah, exactly. So I certainly love that. But I guess my mind goes toward the
more ethereal,
especially as of late. You know, I live alone. I think a lot. So I sort of live
in a fantasy wo