Name: JRE MMA Show #53 with Jeff Novitzky
Uploaded: 2018-12-27T22:53:40.000Z
Description: Watch the stand-up comedy video 'JRE MMA Show #53 with Jeff Novitzky' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2018-12-27. Transcript available.

Watch the stand-up comedy video 'JRE MMA Show #53 with Jeff Novitzky' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2018-12-27. Transcript available.

JRE MMA Show #53 with Jeff Novitzky

four three two one boom got a little thing going on here now a little circle
hello jeff
merry christmas what's up joe you too not been the easiest week in in my life
or my careers last
week but hanging in there to make this uh standalone so that people don't have
to go
figuring this out on their own and i i'm sure many many fans are tuning in
already know that
the gist of the details let's lay this out from the beginning john jones
initial failed test
yeah so that was july of 2017 he tested positive for approximately 20 anywhere
from 20 to 60
picograms of a long-term metabolite known as the m3 metabolite of a substance
called dihydrochloromethyl
testosterone dhcmt also known as oral terinibol and this was over a year ago um
what was determined
to be the source of this stuff never determined what the source was so john
went through a full
arbitration hearing um was never able to determine where it came from tested
all the supplements he
he was using you know went through many uh interviews with usada had a full-on
arbitration
hearing uh the source was never determined where it came from why was his
suspension so low or so
short well it wasn't determined so i mean there's many factors that go into
what that suspension was
i would argue in the totality of the evidence that was presented in that arbitration
that it wasn't a
short suspension um because really one key thing came out of arbitration so
john went to arbitration
before an individual by name of richard mclaren richard mclaren has an arbitration
group up in canada
and mclaren is probably worldwide known as one of the most credible guys in
anti-doping i know you had
the icarus producer director on the mclaren report was the report that came
from all that he basically
investigated the russian state being involved in doping and sochi games and put
out actually a series
of reports on it detailing that up to 1 000 russian athletes um you know were
breaking the rules and the
russian laboratory was helping them get around it so he's a very very respected
guy he's independent of
obviously the ufc he's independent of usada um he acts on his own and his
determination was his
determination um and i'll read you kind of what he said he said i find that all
evidence available to me
leads me to conclude that the violation was not intended nor could it have
enhanced the athlete's
performance so a non-intentional so non-intentional ingestion i mean there's no
argument that it was in
his system but he found the evidence to show non-intentional use and then he
went further
saying that based on the numbers of what he saw in the evidence there was not
even a performance
enhancing benefit afforded to john for having this long-term metabolite in his
system and i think
that's significant when you talk about hey 15 months was that that's you know
kind of light being that
this is a second time through i would argue that if there was an argument that
maybe it's on the
higher end and certainly you know we'll talk about the california commission
andy foster took that
position uh in john's recent california hearing he was a little bit critical of
usada um he thought
you know he's intimately familiar with his evidence both in the previous case
and this occurrence
that and he also saw that there was no evidence that an independent arbitrator
you know made this
uh statement and decision of john intentionally cheating um so if anything you
know i'd say that
potentially there could be an argument that that it was you know on the higher
end versus the lower end
because of the fact that it was an unintentional ingestion exactly now what is
john's excuse what is
what is john said how he got this into his system yeah well look you know and
it's detailed in the
arbitration hearing at all john john fully admits that you know some of the
lifetime lifestyle decisions
he was making you know the partying and things you know probably did not lead
to to making smart
decisions and making smart choices in terms of what was being ingested in the
body but certainly his
testimony was under oath that i have never intentionally cheated and did not
intentionally put this substance in my
body and not only this case but as we talk about the subsequent case here i
think you'll see that
based on the numbers you know coming out of his tests and based on some studies
that have been done
on some of these substances it would tend to support that okay correct me if i'm
wrong but didn't john
test negative then test positive for extremely low numbers this is the initial
test before we get into the
most recent failed test he did so test negative then test positive very shortly
after
with a very small trace amount correct so he had two negative tests on july 7th
and july 8th i believe
of 2017 and then weigh-in day i think it was july 28th he was positive for a
very low level of the m3
metabolite and and we might as well start here so again going back to icarus
remember remember the doctor
i mean he's the main character in that rich in 2011 he put out a study on oral
terinibol um he actually my
understanding is dosed himself and then studied the excretion of his urine and
what was coming out of it
over the weeks and months after and determined that there were multiple maybe
up to 50 metabolites that
once this dhcmt was ingested into the body the body converted into other
substances and these
these metabolites stayed around he identified some short-term metabolites some
medium-term metabolites
and some long-term metabolites specifically the m3 that john's tested positive
for it so these long-term
metabolites would indicate that it was taken a long time ago they would stay
around for the longest
why why was he testing negative and then testing positive for these extremely
so yeah numbers that's a good
question and that's that's basically the question point but what was not
occurring and what has never
occurred in any of john's samples is any presence of the short and medium-term
metabolites and if you
look at uh rechenkov's study he identifies a couple of these medium-term
metabolites roman numeral one
and roman numeral two and he says these metabolites based on his study will
stay in the body at least 22 days
well let's look back to the july 7th and 8th you know positive tests he's
negative on july 7th and 8th for
everything for the parent compound for the short-term medium-term metabolites
and the long-term metabolites
go 20 21 days later so within that 22 day window which his study shows the
short and medium-term metabolites
would still be showing up and there's no presence whatsoever of the short or
medium-term metabolites now again
we'll get into this a little bit more but i think the science what it's showing
is a pulsing effect for
this long-term metabolite meaning once you ingest whether intentionally or non-intentionally
oral
into the body the body breaks it down produces short-term and medium-term which
is you know visible for a
visible for a short and medium amount of time and then this m3 which is
produced for a long period of
time i think what the issue appears to be and we'll get into this the ufc
program is not the only program
that's seen this there's another professional sports league that has seen it
very frequently usada has
also seen this on the olympic side but we're seeing this strange action with
the long-term m3 metabolite
and the theory is it may be hiding um in the fat tissues surrounding organs and
maybe have a pulsing
effect where it's released at certain times and other times you can't detect it
and this is not the
actual substance itself but it's a metabolite correct which indicates a
reaction to this substance it
indicates the body breaking down the parent compound the the oral torino ball
and turning it into these other
things which are stored in the body these metabolites are not performance
enhancing drugs they're the
result of the breakdown of the parent drug in the body now what how much time
is it detectable the
actual drug itself so pretty quick uh it's a pretty quick clearance time i
think rechenkov study says
you know maybe a week uh so it's not around for very long and that's why he
conducted the study
ironically enough and i was going to go watch icarus here last night and i just
i've had too much going
on the last week to kind of refresh my mind but um apparently he he knew this
was part of his
protocol for russian athletes he knew a coach that was still giving the oral
torino ball to russian
athletes and he had a falling out with the coach so he goes off on the side and
studies hey the parent
compound is going to get in and out of the body pretty quick it's going to be
difficult to detect that
let's try to figure out what stays around and leaves markers in the body for a
long time and so he
developed these short and long-term metabolite tests and was able to catch some
of this coach's
athletes for using the oral torino ball interesting so the actual drug itself
is gone from the system
but the metabolite remains now what is the window that the this metabolite is
supposed to be detectable
in the body because we're talking now what are we at like 18 months yeah so
here here's the here's the
proposed initial ingestion yep because my question is these same long-term
metabolites these existed
a year plus ago it was more than a year how long ago that that's the thing so july
2017 was the initial
test so what all the experts and we'll get through this what all the experts
are telling us is there is
no evidence of re-ingestion and most likely this is still remnants from the july
2017 test however
it was to enter into a system and we'll go through some of these testing
numbers that have shown
negatives followed by very low level picogram picogram my question though was
that the the
ingestion that happened that he tested positive for in july of 2017 indicated a
long-term effect right
it was a long-term long-term metabolite correct so meaning it had already been
in his system for a
year or so it absolutely could have predated you know the theory the first time
through was something
had to have entered his system between july 7th and july 8th those negatives
and this low picogram
reading on july 28th over this last year there's been a lot of study into this
long-term metabolite as i
mentioned this isn't just a ufc issue there's another major professional sports
league that
for the time being wants to keep their their testing confidential but they've
shared that information
with scientists with usada with myself okay they saw it on multiple occasions
this pulsing effect over
a year where you'd see but this is well over a year we're talking two and a
half years now right if
it's a year if it's a if in july he was july 2017 you're talking a year and a
half right july 2017
correct july 17 but it could have been in his system a year prior i don't know
yeah it could
have been a couple months a year i don't know he had never showed up for that m3
metabolite for he
had been tested you know for it he had been tested multiple times in the
program correct me if i'm
wrong isn't the same level isn't it approximately the same picograms that exist
today in 2018 that were
there in 2017. generally if you look and we can go over these numbers it it
fluctuates you know from
single digits it never gets into triple digits to to mid double digits so there's
some as low as nine
picograms over that time um there was some at 60 picograms however let's
explain a picogram to
someone because it's a preposterously small it's insane and you know the the
analogy that i heard early
on was and i think john used this throw a pinch of salt in olympic swimming
pool and i'm like okay
well that's you kind of wrap your head around now let's go the other side let's
talk about something
really small that we know of and how many times you have to break down that
small particle to get to a
picogram so one grain of salt and we all know what that looks like right you
put that in front of you
and yo