Name: Is There a Relationship Between Schizophrenia and Drug Use?
Uploaded: 2021-01-13T01:18:13.000Z
Description: Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Is There a Relationship Between Schizophrenia and Drug Use?' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2021-01-13. Transcript available.

Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Is There a Relationship Between Schizophrenia and Drug Use?' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2021-01-13. Transcript available.

One of the things that happened to me as a result of traveling all over the
world is that I met this schizophrenia researcher. His name is Paul Fletcher.
He's at Cambridge and he wanted to experience schizophrenia. He's treating
these people and he wanted to really know because of this critique that you
just laid out. And, um, he's the only person who I know in that area who's done
this, you know? So he, he did like ketamine to try and reproduce the experience
because he heard that that was like reproducing the would reproduce the
experience. Of course it doesn't. Uh, but this is what people have said. Our
animal
models use ketamine for that reason, but it doesn't. Um, but he was curious
enough to
try to figure out what schizophrenia people who are diagnosed with
schizophrenia.
He tried to figure out what they were experiencing. Um, I don't know if he
figured
that out, uh, from this sort of experiential perspective, but what I do know is
that if
I ever had a relative who had schizophrenia, I would send them to Paul Fletcher.
Um, because
his perspective on it, uh, I, it really respects the person who's has this
diagnosis and, uh, it offers
them the greatest amount of hope that I have seen in that area. And it would be
good if other scientists
in these areas, drugs, whatever it is, would also seek to try to figure out the
experience
that their paper, their patients are going through.
Yeah. It'd be almost like learning martial arts without ever sparring.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or coaching basketball without really playing under pressure.
Do you, is there
anything that mimics schizophrenia that, that, that someone that is there like
a commonly thought of
substance that mimics schizophrenia?
Yeah. Um, they have suggested large doses of amphetamines over periods of time
with sleep
deprivation, can mimic paranoid schizophrenia, but I don't know if it really
does. I mean,
all of this stuff, uh, I am now questioning. So I don't know. I mean, at one
time, if you would
ask me that question, maybe five years ago, I would have said amphetamines, but
I don't know now.
Schizophrenia is an odd one too, right? Cause doesn't it affect somewhere in
the neighborhood
of 1% of the population?
Yeah.
That's a lot of people.
It's a lot of people. Um, uh, but I have a lot more hope about schizophrenia
after having
met Paul Fletcher, just in terms of, um, I don't want to bastardize his sort of
model of thinking
about it. And so I may not have all the details, right. But I would just say to
simply try and
explain that you and I, we go through the world, everybody, we have these
theories about how the
world works. Like, um, like you smile. I have a theory about what that means.
Right. And so, uh,
oh, Joe likes me or he's happy today, whatever. And then I'm right. Because you
tell me that whatever
somebody who's diagnosed with schizophrenia, they also have these models that
they're testing out. And so
their model might be like, uh, use me when you smile, they think that you're
angry or whatever.
Uh, and when you're plotting against them, yes. And their model is just wrong.
I mean, it's just like,
they're just getting, they just have, uh, they're bumping, uh, bumping up
against, uh, these wrong
answers. And then when they get, they get more wrong answers, it's even, it
causes even more stress.
Um, and that's very anxiety provoking. And then all of that is playing into
this. It's like,
first of all, your models are off and now you're just getting this increased
anxiety. And so I think
that's how his model sees it. So that, that means that it's okay. As long as we
let people understand
that, don't worry if your model is getting it wrong. Um, it doesn't mean that,
that something's wrong
with you. It could be, um, maybe we are get, we have it wrong in our society
and you have,
you might have a better way of thinking about this. So it's like, as opposed to
it being one way,
there might be multiple ways of thinking about these, these solving these
problems that humans
solve throughout their day. Um, and that's how, uh, I think that's how he
thinks of it. Um, and it's a,
it's a, it's a model of hope for me because, um, you lessen the anxiety among
the patients
and many of the, much of the problems deals with this anxiety of people telling
them that they're
incompetent. And you know how that is, how that feels. That's an adult,
somebody telling you that
you're incompetent. It's like, how can you tell me I'm, I'm, I'm incompetent.
So it exacerbates whatever problems they might initially have. It makes them
far worse.
Exactly.
Yeah. There's also a thing that seems to have, I've only known a few people
that are schizophrenic,
but it's, it's a disturbing thing when they think that everybody's against them
and they feel like they're on their own, but by virtue of everyone being
against them, they feel,
they feel isolated. Yes.
And then they're, whatever paranoia they have, it's like throwing dry sticks on
it, just rages into a fire.
And it gets even worse because they think that people are plotting against them
and everyone's
against them and they don't have anybody comforting them.
Yes.
And we need that. We all need that.
Absolutely.
You know, and I just think particularly people with like a slippery version of
reality probably
need that more than most.
Yeah. When you say reality, it might be multiple realities and that's the thing
that we need
people to understand or that it's like, it's okay. It might be your reality
just might be different
from theirs, but not to the point where you have a different reality and that
you're allowed to abuse
people. So I want to be clear because I know there are some people out here
saying something about
alternative facts. Not, I don't mean it like where you manipulate people. I
mean it for people who are
struggling, uh, like these people with schizophrenia, um, just to help lessen
their anxiety.
Yeah. So with, in terms of marijuana, particularly like high doses of marijuana,
um, particularly edible
marijuana could really seriously exacerbate someone who has, who's kind of
hanging on barely anyway.
And then boom, you eat an edible. Absolutely. You're fucked. So someone like
Alex would say
that person's schizophrenia was brought on by marijuana. Whereas I think you
and I would probably
agree they were more likely inclined towards schizophrenia anyway. And the high
dose of marijuana pushed them
over the. And then, you know, every, all the evidence says what you just said.
I mean, so when you look at
the evidence where people have done all of these studies, um, folks who didn't
have these predispositions,
um, the marijuana didn't, uh, doesn't cause people to be schizophrenic or have
a psychotic disorder.
Right. Uh, but it certainly can precipitate, um, or exacerbate, um, um, um, um,
psychosis in people who
are predisposed. So what I was going to get to was, do you think that maybe for
people that have
this predisposition towards schizophrenia, they should probably avoid psychoactive
substances or avoid
something that radically perturbs their version of reality. They probably
should avoid cannabis. Right.
Um, I don't want to say avoid everything because, um, is there anything that
they could maybe use that
maybe would help them? Yeah. So I spent a little time working in a heroin
clinic in Geneva. And so they
give out heroin to these patients twice a day, every day intravenous or oral,
however the patient wants
it. Uh, but a lot of intravenous heroin users, um, and it's all, you know,
sanitized setting hospital
setting or clinic setting twice a day, many of these people, um, have psychotic
disorders like diagnosed
with, uh, schizophrenia and heroin helps me. Yeah. With many of these symptoms
and they feel better.
Um, even more so in some cases than anti-psychotic, uh, really? Yeah. I talk
about this in the new book,
in fact, but yeah, this is, uh, so I don't want to have this blanket statement
that they should avoid
psychoactive substances because some might actually be helpful. Um, and, um,
some other people have tried other drugs,
um, one, uh, psychiatrists in the Netherlands, uh, gave his patients amphetamines
and he swears that it works.
Um, but that has to be, um, researched out, but, uh, we'll see, but I, I know
cannabis for sure. Uh, I, I wouldn't do that one.
You wouldn't do cannabis and perhaps maybe not high levels of amphetamines as
well either, right?
I don't know. You know, I, I will, I would have to, um, um, slowly titrate and
see whether or not it worked,
uh, whether or not people felt better. Catch new episodes of the Joe Rogan
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