Name: Former CIA Agent Mike Baker on China's 2049 Plan
Uploaded: 2021-03-10T23:33:16.000Z
Description: Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Former CIA Agent Mike Baker on China's 2049 Plan' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2021-03-10. Transcript available.

Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Former CIA Agent Mike Baker on China's 2049 Plan' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2021-03-10. Transcript available.

the Joe Rogan experience I'm very excited to talk to you because I had a
guy on Jamie Metzl yesterday a scientist who scared the shit out of me talking
about China he's talking about China we were talking about China amassing naval
power China's taking over tech companies and how huge they're getting
and how much influence they have over their people as opposed to the way we do
it well he's not wrong no yeah I can't spot the lion and what what you just
said
but I mean look I mean there's so much we can we can we can talk about but if
you
think about it just in the past handful of months there was this solar winds
hack
right by the Russians so the Russians go in they hack into a company called
solar
winds there is an IT management software company that happens to be fairly
deep into government organizations agencies Treasury and a variety of
others throughout the US government and they're also into parts of the intel
community defense department in a lot of commercial sectors so anyway the
Russians
figure this out now round about December or January Microsoft you know
identified
this is a problem and and I think was the head of Microsoft said it looks like
the
most sophisticated attack we've ever seen so this is December January timeframe
and
they're still trying to figure out the depth of this hack by Russians at the
same
time and going back months and months and months and months before the Chinese
had
been engaged in a more sophisticated attack that while everyone is focused on
what's going on and so fully aware that we got problems right from from nation
states out
there who don't like us everybody's talking about solar winds and now it's you
know they've just now
released information about the Chinese attack against Microsoft Exchange
servers and running the
exchange email systems and this thing is enormous and so the Chinese yeah I
mean we've been so focused for four years on the Russians
you know and they're you know they they're out there to cause us all sorts of
problems so
we should be focused on them but it's China that's the biggest problem and so
this
guy is absolutely right Jamie's right it was terrifying yeah listen to what he
was
talking about the way he was explaining how they you know they have this plan
with I
think he said 2049 to be the the global superpower of the world and essentially
be
take the place of what America used to be yeah they would their way and to do
it their way which means
we're gonna bypass all the costs and the heavy lift of research and development
over
the years and which could steal everything and they've been doing it for
decades so
people think oh China it's a problem it's a we've talked about this before you
know this idea that perhaps this is just something relatively new or it's
popped up
during the previous administration of Trump and honest guys truth is it's been
going on for decades and they decided that that's how they're going to get to
the
top of the food chain is by stealing shit because it's a lot easier to hoover
up
everything and then reverse engineer it and the technology has made it even
easier
right it used to be old school they'd go out and recruit somebody they'd find
some
Chinese American working for a company here in the States they'd appeal to sort
of you know you got to help the motherland and and they would and that was
the old school way of doing it but you know cyber theft is it's incredible what
they're able to do and this latest attack whether they're still trying to sort
out the
mess right so when they do this so if they get into this email server they are
they
targeting anything specific is there specific companies are they just like
throwing a net out there and seeing what they catch yes is the answer to both
of
those it's it looks like what happened here was that their their initial point
of
attack or the initial focus was intelligence right so then it branched out
and it branched out very very quickly right to hit everything small companies
medium-sized companies and that's kind of the mo for the the Chinese the
Chinese regime
right the and the their Intel operations they've got this long vision and they've
also got the resources and they've got the desire to hoover up everything and
then
sort it out later we take as as a country we take a very sort of targeted
approach right we say
okay this is a piece of information that's a priority tasking for the US for
our national
security we're going to go out we're going to figure out who has access to it
we're going
to develop a very sort of surgical strike to figure out how do we get to
somebody who's
got this piece of information that's typically how we or some of our allies
would operate
the Russians the Chinese have always had a different approach I mean the
Russians is less
elegant the Russians just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks right but
the Chinese they've
got this long view and they've also got this ability and they'll so in this
particular attack
that they're still trying to assess that was perpetrated by you know Chinese
state-sponsored
hackers based in China they they're just going to take everything and then they'll
sift through
it they'll figure out what they got a lot of it's going to be just you know chafe
not not of
interest but they're going to find a lot of gold in there too and they're
willing to do
that because they've got the patience to do it they'll they'll develop a target
they'll develop a
potential recruit for years and years and years or they'll they'll infiltrate a
society or an
organization right they'll put a student out here who's actually working for
the PLA for their Intel
operations and they'll put them out as an undergrad and then they'll go to
school and they'll get good
grades and they'll go to a grad school and they'll get a job they'll get
another job and then 30 years
down the line it may pay off but they're willing to make that investment so all
right so we should
be scared well we shouldn't be scared but we said yeah we I don't think we
should be scared but I
think what we should be is is pragmatic and understand why for instance I mean
there was a
lot of you know hue and cry over the past four years I can't believe I just
said hue and cry I don't
know what that means it's old-timey is it oh my golly look at me it's like the
cat's pajamas
um it's uh so you know four years of Trump and sort of his antagonistic
relationship with China
and people were all wringing their hands in Washington DC you know that sort of
the the
think tankers and the traditional pundits and the diplomats of of of of of the
US you know the long-term
people they're oh my god we've got this adversarial relationship with China
well you know what
we better right so that's not a bad thing so I'm hoping the current
administration maintains to
some degree and we'll see what happens they still haven't responded to the
solar winds to the Russian
attack right they're talking about it now they're saying they're gonna they're
gonna engage in
several clandestine uh retaliatory acts well it's not that clandestine because
they've announced that
they're gonna do it uh and so you know but but I'm hoping that they will take
serious action uh against
the the solar winds Russian act but they've got to with China they've got to
maintain this uh posture
we've got to uh make it clear and understood to the Chinese regime that we're
not gonna put up with
this shit they're gonna keep doing it but we got to make it painful for them so
how do you make it
painful well you know it's the old word sanctions you gotta go with the
sanctions because there's not
much else trade wars you know I know everybody hates a trade war not everybody
but um you've you've you've
got to find a way because the problem with with cyber uh shenanigans is that
there's no real clear
definition right we know if we if if a country fires a ballistic missile off uh
you know we know what the
rhetoric retaliatory or retaliatory act is we know what appropriate response is
in cyberspace when
you're talking about warfare coming up with a definition is very difficult and
hasn't been done
yet we've got cyber command right and we're still trying to sort out what are
appropriate responses
because it can escalate quickly right next thing you know they could shut down
our infrastructure right
well that's what I wanted to talk to you about supposedly what they did in
India so if you could
explain that to people they they shut down the power grid in India allegedly
they said they didn't do
it but apparently there was some sort of a warning about the power going out
right yeah um they've
done it um I mean the Russians did it famously in Ukraine right I mean not that
long ago and um
China's ability to interfere uh in uh infrastructure here in the U.S. or in
India or uh with our allies
is because for years now they've been probing there's been testing going on you
know they're we we
you know we talk about um it's a good example we talk about how um in the U.S.
we have three grids
and I think people were stunned to find out that Texas has its own power grid
well yeah uh but it's
not so much people were like oh my god look at Texas they're terrible because
you know they wanted to
make it a political thing right they wanted to make it sound like the reason
why it's so terrible is
because it's Republicans and they've got they want their own independence well
no all three grids are
fucked right the east and the west and the and the Texas grids are all cobbled
together over the years
so it's a very sort of it's like a patchwork quilt and they were never built to
withstand uh physical
attacks I mean you could drive by any substation right you could get close
enough to pee on it
and there's they they certainly were never designed to to withstand a cyber
attack so
over the years what goes on is essentially a mapping exercise right where
whether it's the
Russians whether it's the Chinese whether it's the North Koreans using Chinese
capabilities whether
it's the Iranians whomever they're in there probing and trying to understand
the weaknesses
and they're drawing up a map now the reason why they're doing that is to have a
game plan right
and I guarantee you sitting on the desk somewhere not too far from you know Xi's
office is a playbook
that says if this thing escalates here's what we're going to do
and if you think like it was bad in Texas you know a couple weeks ago when you
know the power was out
and it was bad but think about that lasting for eight ten twelve weeks around
the country right
power grid shut down what happens you can't transport shit right you can't get
cash fuel doesn't get to
the gas stations food doesn't get to the stores uh there's you know depending
on the time of year
heat issues obviously water supplies uh and that's where the next big battle is
going to be fought
right they're going to bring it to the homeland and we will do the same thing
right it's not like we're
not doing it because people always say when i say something like that well the
u.s does it too
i think well fuck yeah the u.s does it we better we better hope we're we're
prepared does that frustrate
you frustrate you when people say that well the u.s does it too yeah it does in
a sense because and
this is where i think um you know that now personal opinion comes into it look
i spent most of my
my adult life overseas and i'd like to think that i've got a fairly pragmatic
view on things i do admit
that i you know obviously look i look at the u.s and i like to think and i have
seen on occasions
we do a lot of things for for the right reasons sometimes we don't do it
properly right we make
mistakes of course we make mistakes uh but we try to self-correct i guarantee
you if we're talking
about the major powers out there if we're talking about china and us we're
talking about the chinese
regime i'm talking about obviously if we're talking about uh the russians the ronians
north koreans we better
hope that we stay up there right and are able to uh exert influence and
leverage and control the top
right because if it's if it's and again i maybe i'm wrong here but the chinese
don't view anything in
an altruistic manner the chinese regime right it's all about self-interest and
sometimes i'll tell you
what's frustrating sometimes is we seem to be the only country out there that
apologizes right for that
sort of thing and so when we act in our own best interest and we go well we're
really sorry about
that you know we're kind of acting in our best interest well every other nation
does it and they
don't give a yeah but shouldn't we be the moral high ground for the world i
think we should i think
it's nice if we do all the same they do we say sorry yeah as long as we do all
the same i guess
it doesn't cost anything to say sorry it's not a bad thing it's not a bad thing
we're setting a tone
yeah i guess that's true as long as we're as long as we're also then at the
same time acting at our
own best yeah because we have to be again we have to be pragmatic if we think
that somehow
you know look at climate change that's obviously it's back on the table it's a
big issue as a
major policy direction hey fine great who doesn't want clean energy but you
know to to to act as if
china's not the you know the the number one polluter out there is insane yeah
that's that's where
it gets weird yeah it does get it gets a little weird giant difference between
the amount of
particulates the amount of pollution the amount of co2 you know um i think they've
they've tried
hard to mitigate that over the last few years in particular but you remember
when they had the
beijing olympics yes and they had to shut everything down because the air
quality was so bad
that the athletes you know would it would actually be dangerous for the
athletes to to perform and to
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episode of the joe rogan experience

Former CIA Agent Mike Baker on China's 2049 Plan

the Joe Rogan experience I'm very excited to talk to you because I had a
guy on Jamie Metzl yesterday a scientist who scared the shit out of me talking
about China he's talking about China we were talking about China amassing naval
power China's taking over tech companies and how huge they're getting
and how much influence they have over their people as opposed to the way we do
it well he's not wrong no yeah I can't spot the lion and what what you just
said
but I mean look I mean there's so much we can we can we can talk about but if
you
think about it just in the past handful of months there was this solar winds
hack
right by the Russians so the Russians go in they hack into a company called
solar
winds there is an IT management software company that happens to be fairly
deep into government organizations agencies Treasury and a variety of
others throughout the US government and they're also into parts of the intel
community defense department in a lot of commercial sectors so anyway the
Russians
figure this out now round about December or January Microsoft you know
identified
this is a problem and and I think was the head of Microsoft said it looks like
the
most sophisticated attack we've ever seen so this is December January timeframe
and
they're still trying to figure out the depth of this hack by Russians at the
same
time and going back months and months and months and months before the Chinese
had
been engaged in a more sophisticated attack that while everyone is focused on
what's going on and so fully aware that we got problems right from from nation
states out
there who don't like us everybody's talking about solar winds and now it's you
know they've just now
released information about the Chinese attack against Microsoft Exchange
servers and running the
exchange email systems and this thing is enormous and so the Chinese yeah I
mean we've been so focused for four years on the Russians
you know and they're you know they they're out there to cause us all sorts of
problems so
we should be focused on them but it's China that's the biggest problem and so
this
guy is absolutely right Jamie's right it was terrifying yeah listen to what he
was
talking about the way he was explaining how they you know they have this plan
with I
think he said 2049 to be the the global superpower of the world and essentially
be
take the place of what America used to be yeah they would their way and to do
it their way which means
we're gonna bypass all the costs and the heavy lift of research and development
over
the years and which could steal everything and they've been doing it for
decades so
people think oh China it's a problem it's a we've talked about this before you
know this idea that perhaps this is just something relatively new or it's
popped up
during the previous administration of Trump and honest guys truth is it's been
going on for decades and they decided that that's how they're going to get to
the
top of the food chain is by stealing shit because it's a lot easier to hoover
up
everything and then reverse engineer it and the technology has made it even
easier
right it used to be old school they'd go out and recruit somebody they'd find
some
Chinese American working for a company here in the States they'd appeal to sort
of you know you got to help the motherland and and they would and that was
the old school way of doing it but you know cyber theft is it's incredible what
they're able to do and this latest attack whether they're still trying to sort
out the
mess right so when they do this so if they get into this email server they are
they
targeting anything specific is there specific companies are they just like
throwing a net out there and seeing what they catch yes is the answer to both
of
those it's it looks like what happened here was that their their initial point
of
attack or the initial focus was intelligence right so then it branched out
and it branched out very very quickly right to hit everything small companies
medium-sized companies and that's kind of the mo for the the Chinese the
Chinese regime
right the and the their Intel operations they've got this long vision and they've
also got the resources and they've got the desire to hoover up everything and
then
sort it out later we take as as a country we take a very sort of targeted
approach right we say
okay this is a piece of information that's a priority tasking for the US for
our national
security we're going to go out we're going to figure out who has access to it
we're going
to develop a very sort of surgical strike to figure out how do we get to
somebody who's
got this piece of information that's typically how we or some of our allies
would operate
the Russians the Chinese have always had a different approach I mean the
Russians is less
elegant the Russians just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks right but
the Chinese they've
got this long view and they've also got this ability and they'll so in this
particular attack
that they're still trying to assess that was perpetrated by you know Chinese
state-sponsored
hackers based in China they they're just going to take everything and then they'll
sift through
it they'll figure out what they got a lot of it's going to be just you know chafe
not not of
interest but they're going to find a lot of gold in there too and they're
willing to do
that because they've got the patience to do it they'll they'll develop a target
they'll develop a
potential recruit for years and years and years or they'll they'll infiltrate a
society or an
organization right they'll put a student out here who's actually working for
the PLA for their Intel
operations and they'll put them out as an undergrad and then they'll go to
school and they'll get good
grades and they'll go to a grad school and they'll get a job they'll get
another job and then 30 years
down the line it may pay off but they're willing to make that investment so all
right so we should
be scared well we shouldn't be scared but we said yeah we I don't think we
should be scared but I
think what we should be is is pragmatic and understand why for instance I mean
there was a
lot of you know hue and cry over the past four years I can't believe I just
said hue and cry I don't
know what that means it's old-timey is it oh my golly look at me it's like the
cat's pajamas
um it's uh so you know four years of Trump and sort of his antagonistic
relationship with China
and people were all wringing their hands in Washington DC you know that sort of
the the
think tankers and the traditional pundits and the diplomats of of of of of the
US you know the long-term
people they're oh my god we've got this adversarial relationship with China
well you know what
we better right so that's not a bad thing so I'm hoping the current
administration maintains to
some degree and we'll see what happens they still haven't responded to the
solar winds to the Russian
attack right they're talking about it now they're saying they're gonna they're
gonna engage in
several clandestine uh retaliatory acts well it's not that clandestine because
they've announced that
they're gonna do it uh and so you know but but I'm hoping that they will take
serious action uh against
the the solar winds Russian act but they've got to with China they've got to
maintain this uh posture
we've got to uh make it clear and understood to the Chinese regime that we're
not gonna put up with
this shit they're gonna keep doing it but we got to make it painful for them so
how do you make it
painful well you know it's the old word sanctions you gotta go with the
sanctions because there's not
much else trade wars you know I know everybody hates a trade war not everybody
but um you've you've you've
got to find a way because the problem with with cyber uh shenanigans is that
there's no real clear
definition right we know if we if if a country fires a ballistic missile off uh
you know we know what the
rhetoric retaliatory or retaliatory act is we know what appropriate response is
in cyberspace when
you're talking about warfare coming up with a definition is very difficult and
hasn't been done
yet we've got cyber command right and we're still trying to sort out what are
appropriate responses
because it can escalate quickly right next thing you know they could shut down
our infrastructure right
well that's what I wanted to talk to you about supposedly what they did in
India so if you could
explain that to people they they shut down the power grid in India allegedly
they said they didn't do
it but apparently there was some sort of a warning about the power going out
right yeah um they've
done it um I mean the Russians did it famously in Ukraine right I mean not that
long ago and um
China's ability to interfere uh in uh infrastructure here in the U.S. or in
India or uh with our allies
is because for years now they've been probing there's been testing going on you
know they're we we
you know we talk about um it's a good example we talk about how um in the U.S.
we have three grids
and I think people were stunned to find out that Texas has its own power grid
well yeah uh but it's
not so much people were like oh my god look at Texas they're terrible because
you know they wanted to
make it a political thing right they wanted to make it sound like the reason
why it's so terrible is
because it's Republicans and they've got they want their own independence well
no all three grids are
fucked right the east and the west and the and the Texas grids are all cobbled
together over the years
so it's a very sort of it's like a patchwork quilt and they were never built to
withstand uh physical
attacks I mean you could drive by any substation right you could get close
enough to pee on it
and there's they they certainly were never designed to to withstand a cyber
attack so
over the years what goes on is essentially a mapping exercise right where
whether it's the
Russians whether it's the Chinese whether it's the North Koreans using Chinese
capabilities whether
it's the Iranians whomever they're in there probing and trying to understand
the weaknesses
and they're drawing up a map now the reason why they're doing that is to have a
game plan right
and I guarantee you sitting on the desk somewhere not too far from you know Xi's
office is a playbook
that says if this thing escalates here's what we're going to do
and if you think like it was bad in Texas you know a couple weeks ago when you
know the power was out
and it was bad but think about that lasting for eight ten twelve weeks around
the country right
power grid shut down what happens you can't transport shit right you can't get
cash fuel doesn't get to
the gas stations food doesn't get to the stores uh there's you know depending
on the time of year
heat issues obviously water supplies uh and that's where the next big battle is
going to be fought
right they're going to bring it to the homeland and we will do the same thing
right it's not like we're
not doing it because people always say when i say something like that well the
u.s does it too
i think well fuck yeah the u.s does it we better we better hope we're we're
prepared does that frustrate
you frustrate you when people say that well the u.s does it too yeah it does in
a sense because and
this is where i think um you know that now personal opinion comes into it look
i spent most of my
my adult life overseas and i'd like to think that i've got a fairly pragmatic
view on things i do admit
that i you know obviously look i look at the u.s and i like to think and i have
seen on occasions
we do a lot of things for for the right reasons sometimes we don't do it
properly right we make
mistakes of course we make mistakes uh but we try to self-correct i guarantee
you if we're talking
about the major powers out there if we're talking about china and us we're
talking about the chinese
regime i'm talking about obviously if we're talking about uh the russians the ronians
north koreans we better
hope that we stay up there rig