Name: Joe Rogan Experience #1774 - Josh Dubin
Uploaded: 2022-02-09T00:00:00.000Z
Description: Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Joe Rogan Experience #1774 - Josh Dubin' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2022-02-09. Transcript available.

Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Joe Rogan Experience #1774 - Josh Dubin' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2022-02-09. Transcript available.

Joe Rogan Experience #1774 - Josh Dubin

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
Hello, Joshua.
Hello, Joseph.
Good to see you, man.
Never called you Joseph.
That's okay, I never called you Joshua.
I think I did it like five minutes ago.
That's all right.
My mom and my wife call me Joshua.
Oh, well, I'm sorry.
That's all right.
Depends on the context.
First of all, we should talk about the people that got off because of the last
podcast we did.
Because that's an amazing thing.
So let's talk about that.
Because of you and your work, there's two men out there that would still be in
jail.
Because of you talking about it and you putting the heat on whoever was
responsible, now these two guys are free.
Yeah, and, you know, it's hard to determine with any certainty the various
factors that go into an exoneration or, you know, prosecutors dropping charges.
But there are two immovable truths here.
Two young black men are, have a new lease on life and have had horrific
nightmares end.
And I know that this platform and this show not only helped that, but were a
driving force behind it.
And I know it not just based on what I think, I know it based on empirical
evidence.
Because there was a time when I was asked to come to Lawrence, Kansas and sit
at the Lawrence Police Department on the case against Ron Torres, Washington.
So that the Lawrence Police Department could tell me, here's the evidence we
have against your client.
And before the meeting started, the district attorney walked in the room.
And instead of saying hello to me, she said, welcome to the armpit.
Now, that was a direct reference to something I said on this podcast.
And that I quickly, right after saying it, caught myself and corrected myself.
Because the context in which I was saying it, and I said that that was a
horrible way to put it or whatever I said.
But the context in which I was saying it was in my mind that if you are a black
man or woman caught in the criminal justice system in Lawrence, Kansas, that is
the armpit.
So I knew then and there that she was paying attention.
And not just paying attention, paying attention to this podcast.
And she knew full well that I had the cavalry behind me.
Now, how much that factored into the story I'll tell later about how those
charges against Ron Torres, Washington, were dropped.
And what happened to Albert Wilson, who was the same prosecutor's office, we'll
never know.
Isn't there also an argument for you expressing the facts of the case outside
of a courtroom setting where they're trying to win, right?
Isn't there a problem with prosecutors and defendants and the system that's set
up, that's set up like it's a game?
And I don't mean it's a game like it's trivial.
I mean it's a game like people are trying to win.
Yeah, yeah, there's a part of that.
But I think that in recognizing and you and I have spoken about this and
recognizing that sort of fault that exists amongst us as mammals, as human
beings, that is especially so when you're talking about prosecutors, in my
opinion, that have this tunnel vision that we'll talk about.
I think you just have to recognize that pressure breaks pipes in these cases if
you think about what's going on with Pervis Payne right now, what's going on
with Julius Jones, with Rodney Reed.
I mean, Pervis Payne is going to get out in five years.
Julius Jones, Rodney Reed is facing a new trial.
Those results were brought to bear by pressure, public pressure.
So one immovable truth, or I referred to two before, but one sort of
overarching known is that this works.
And it's because I want to tell you the spirit in which I'm here today.
And, you know, I am here not on behalf of the Innocence Project.
I don't speak for them, even though I'm the ambassador advisor.
There are other organizations that I'm involved with that pay attention to news
cycles and media.
I'm here as Josh Dubin, the human being, that is doing my part, and it's not
for me to judge whether it's small or large,
doing my part to help in whatever way I can, whether it's a drop in the bucket,
a grain of sand, or something more.
And that's for someone else to judge, to help free people that are wrongfully
incarcerated, period, full stop.
This show has been a critical part of telling these stories and getting that
out there.
I'm not here to have a debate about people's perception of things other people
say or pass judgment or anything like that.
That's not my role, and that's not what I'm here for.
And I think that we need to have a discussion about race in the criminal
injustice system.
And I know enough about you to know your heart that we're going to have that
today.
And that is the spirit in which I'm here.
And I know the direct results because two young black men were exonerated as a
result, at least in part of the show.
How many cases are you dealing with concurrently?
How many cases do you have on file, like right now, where you have to go over
the details of someone who may be innocent?
The answer to it is thousands.
I get mail every day from jails all across the country.
Well, we were talking about this earlier, about how much your business has
exploded because of these kind of conversations.
How do you manage that?
Okay, so the Innocence Project, which I am, again, I can't speak on behalf of
them.
But what the Innocence Project-
You work with them.
Yes, I'm the ambassador advisor to the Innocence Project, which makes me sort
of, you know, somebody that it's a unique role because I have done so much pro
bono work and awareness raising that there was a decision to give me that title.
They have a remarkable mail, you know, mailroom center that processes mail from
prisoners from across the country.
Then there is a network called the Innocence Network, which are franchisees, if
you will.
There's the Midwest Innocence Project, who was my co-counsel in the Ron Torres
Washington case.
And there are, you know, there's one in New Orleans.
They're all over the country that operate on their own, and they are constantly
getting mail.
And then there are just people like myself, Jason Flom, that are constantly
getting mail.
And it's so much to keep up with that you need to be able to have a network of
resources.
So I have decided to take on a role at Cardozo Law School, which is where the
Innocence Project started as a field, what they call a field clinic of law
students over 25 years ago, founded by Barry Sheck and Peter Neufeld.
So I was offered the role of becoming the executive director of a new program
called The Redemption Project.
And look, again, this is why not only the show, but being able to find common
ground with people we disagree with is so critical in this process.
The founder, or excuse me, the chairman of Marvel, Ike Perlmutter, and his wife,
it's going to be called the Perlmutter Center.
He's the chairman of Marvel Comics?
Yes, Marvel Entertainment.
And he's a right-leaning Republican that was friends with President Trump.
And we otherwise wouldn't have much to agree on, but we found common ground in
this.
And that is a role that I'm going to be taking on where we're going to be
focusing, and it's going to start in the fall.
Now I'm going to have more resources to help more people, because Ike Perlmutter
and his wife, Lori, have agreed to fund it for 10 years.
How did they get involved?
Like, what is his interest in criminal justice?
It's the craziest thing.
It's like an episode of—I can't talk too much about it because the case is
still pending.
But what is out there publicly, I can talk about.
It's like an episode of, like, Seinfeld or Curb Your Enthusiasm gone way off
the rails.
His DNA, his wife's DNA was stolen.
It was a condo dispute about the tennis pro that descended into chaos.
It started as this crazy civil case where he was accused of, you know,
spreading mis—
there was one faction of people that want the tennis pro removed.
The tennis pro was very good friends with him, right?
And the—and he cared about this woman.
She was a single mother.
He's a very philanthropic guy when no one's looking.
He just not—he went to Iron Man in a disguise because he doesn't want people
to know who he is.
He's just a very private guy.
So, there was this faction in this condo community that wanted the tennis pro
removed because she was selling real estate out of the tennis pro office.
And this faction wanted her to partner up with another couple that sold real
estate.
It was crazy.
It was a condo dispute right out of Boca Del Vista in a Seinfeld episode.
So, he took the opposing side and said, you're not removing her.
And in any event, about a year later, this hate mail against the people that
wanted her removed, this one individual, starts to arrive in the community.
And it's accusing him of all sorts of awful shit, accusing this other man of
being a child molester and a murderer and all kinds of craziness.
And there's Jewish stars on it and, like, Hebrew slang, all misspelled.
So, this guy gets in his mind that Ike Perlmutter is behind it.
And they have Ike and his wife subpoenaed as third-party witnesses in
connection with the tennis center lawsuit, subpoenaed to sit at a deposition.
And they framed him and his wife and they stole her DNA from a—they gave her
water to drink.
And they falsely claimed, and it was published in the New York Times, that her
DNA matched the hate mail.
So—
They set her up from giving her a glass of water?
And him.
They gave him this paper to touch that, apparently, to get his epithelial skin
cells, phony exhibits.
Holy shit.
So, the famed criminal defense lawyer, Roy Black, brought me into the case just
to really help with trial strategy, which is allegedly my forte.
And then it descended into DNA, and I have some expertise in that for my work
at the Innocence Project, because all the cases that we do at the Innocence
Project are using biological evidence to get people off.
So, when Roy had sort of hit his limit on what he knew about DNA, he said, now
I need more from you, and will you join the case?
So, I figured out how they had set her up.
I figured out that it wasn't her DNA, and the case ultimately got dismissed.
The only thing that exists now is his case against the insurance company for
setting him up, because the allegations in the lawsuit now, he's suing Chubb,
because it was a Chubb lawyer that engineered this.
So, they know—they have the actual correspondence, like the actual evidence
where someone said, we're going to get his DNA?
Yes, and it's all a matter of public record.
Jesus Christ.
And one of the guys was a Chubb attorney.
Oh, that should land you in jail for a long fucking time.
One of the things we were able to do is I testified before the Florida House
Judiciary Committee and used this case as an example, and the testimony is out
there publicly, to change the law in Florida, citing this case from a misdemeanor
to a felony, and we were able to get that done.
So, it is possible that someone could do something like that where they could
set you up for a crime and steal your DNA, and that would be a misdemeanor in
some cases?
Not anymore.
Not in Florida.
Not in Florida.
But they didn't prosecute this man for it.
What?
No, they did not prosecute him for it.
Palm Beach did not—decided not to prosecute him.
But to answer your question, so the way—the way Ike Perlmutter, a strange bedfellow,
if you will, with me in criminal justice reform and his wife got interested, is
he is a very hands-on guy.
And why aren't you paying attention to my case?
This was five years ago, and I said, there's no trial date.
And by the way, I have a man sitting on death row in Florida, and I became lead
trial counsel for him.
And, you know, I'm going to be busy with that.
And it was the Clemente Aguirre case.
So Ike started to pay attention to the case in the media because it was in the
Orlando Sentinel every day, and I guess the Palm Beach Post has some affiliation.
He started to read the media attention.
So I ended up—the sto