Name: Writer of Hurt Locker & Zero Dark Thirty on Bringing Realism to Movies
Uploaded: 2022-12-15T21:34:53.000Z
Description: Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Writer of Hurt Locker & Zero Dark Thirty on Bringing Realism to Movies' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2022-12-15. Transcript available.

Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Writer of Hurt Locker & Zero Dark Thirty on Bringing Realism to Movies' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2022-12-15. Transcript available.

The Joe Rogan experience. It's such a good movie. Thank you. It's so good
because it's so like you
can see how he would be like that. You could see how he would be drawn to go
back there. You could
see how the pull of and the chaos of it all and then there's a scene where he's
I believe he's in
a supermarket and it's just fucking boring. Life is just the mundane normal
life and he just wants
to go back to war. Yeah. It's and I'm like I buy it all in you know it's like
it's very rare that you
know you see him there's like no suspension of disbelief. You buy him you're
watching that film
you're like whoa like I could see. Well that was a big part of what we were
trying to do was to was
to so I had been in I had been in Baghdad as a reporter in 2004 I guess and
um I had seen some of what what's depicted in the in the film and so I had
witnessed the bomb squad
going out and defusing bombs and then and I wrote an article about it and then
um the idea came
along for a screenplay. I had the idea to write a screenplay put it that way
and my whole thing is
over the course of a year I didn't know how to write a screenplay but my whole
thing is I was learning how
to do it and doing rewrites was to try to replicate the experience that I had
that I felt when I was
there. Okay so to do that there was a lot of craft and whatnot involved in how
to in creating that that I
had to learn but it also meant breaking a lot of rules of narrative and
storytelling that you normally
would do to make a movie effective but that in this case may would have made it
less authentic to the
experience like one for example is that most war movies are organized around a
mission it's like in
the beginning of the movie you're told hey this is what we got to do and then
the rest of the movie
plays out like Saving Private Ryan or what have you. When I was in Baghdad one
of the things I was struck by
was the this ceaseless like hamster wheel repetition of the war that it wasn't
organized around a single mission it was
this this feudal attempt to try to find all these bombs that had been
dispersed throughout the country by the counter insurgency
so I couldn't organize it around a mission I had at least in my mind to keep it
authentic
I had to kind of make the story
similar enough to the reality which was like everyday new mission like a kind
of
you know episodic structure they call it so there are all these decisions along
the way that get made
to create that feeling that you have where you go oh I can suspend I can
suspend my disbelief because
this feels this feels real and
then there's the point at which
like you do all this research I did all that research of actually going there
hanging out with
these guys talking to them witnessing what they were doing trying to get deep
inside of it learning about
IEDs and how they work and really getting inside their mentality hanging out
with them
and then there's another point at which you kind of put yourself into the piece
too
and it's funny that you mentioned the scene at the end
and it's it's been really instructive to me because
when I was doing screenings for the Hurt Locker a lot of times
at the end of the screening like a vet would come up and that scene
in the grocery store
where
Sergeant James that's the character name was like kind of
first time back from the war
and he's he's like overwhelmed by the commercialism
of the supermarket
and all the choices of cereal
and it's not just that it's boring
it's that it's like
so meaningless compared to what he'd just been doing
and he can't
he can't function and you've seen this guy
operate on such a high level
for the past whatever it is
hour and a half
yeah there's a scene right there
oh
he can't choose you know
all this like uh
consumer shit
it was such a good representation of what
these guys have to go through
but my
and Renner is so good there too
he's amazing
but that that actual thing had happened to me
coming back
I felt this sense of dislocation
and I was only there for like a couple weeks
but I felt this sense of like
how surreally
grotesque like certain parts of our
wealth are
after you're in
after you see this poverty
and you see the hardship of the war
so that was like my thing
that wasn't like a research thing
and it's just interesting
it was like totally from my heart
and I remember putting it in
and thinking
this is one of the rare things in the movie
that like I didn't get from
reporting
and
it actually
turned out to be
one of the things that translated the most
to other people
and it kind of taught me about like
well sometimes if you just dig deep enough
probably
there's a chance anyway
that like
your experiences
or my experiences
if you're really being honest about them
and this goes back to where we started this conversation
will translate to other people
even if you don't
even if you think they're super hyper fucking specific to you
yeah
does that make sense
yes
it might be hyper specific
so that's what I'm
so
relatable
it's relatable because
it is in retrospect
but at the time I was like
this is just a weird thing that happened to me
no but you nailed it
because you
because in the context of the movie
you know
you see that this guy is
I mean every time he's defusing a bomb
this could be it
and
he's over there
in this
this chaos ridden
war zone
and then he comes back
and he's wandering through a supermarket aisle
it was perfect
it was the perfect juxtaposition
and it really does
you
you
you do relate to it
because I think all of us are aware
that
you kind of get accustomed
to whatever you're around
you know
you get accustomed to
a chaotic home life
or a peaceful home life
you get
a very busy workplace
where things
people are yelling at each other
and everything's constantly moving fast
or
boring
droning
cubicle life
like
people understand
that there's like certain
ways
of living
and existing
that you can get accustomed to
and they kind of make sense
when you've adjusted
and adapted to them
but then
to have
such a clear
difference
between being in a war zone
and being in a supermarket
it was
it was perfect
well thanks
I'll take that
yeah
no it was really good man
it's like
what
what does it feel like
to have the responsibility
of trying to relay
one of the most complex aspects
of
human life
which is war
it's funny
when you said perfect
I just flashed on
not to not answer your question
but I remember
there was some reviewer
at the time
that called it
a near perfect movie
oh
and I remember
calling him up
and being like
near perfect
what the fuck
like is that near
really necessary
well
because I want to put it on the
I wanted to put it on the DVD
anyway we did
we left it out there
it's still
I mean you know
but
it's hard for someone to say
something's absolutely perfect
no of course
it's stupid
nothing's perfect
but
that's funny
when you said perfect
what the fuck bro
near perfect
what's near
what more do you want
yeah
no I do feel
the sense of responsibility
I mean I think that
I think we're all responsible
I think
whether you're doing
a topic like that
where I tend to do
real life stuff
although this
most recent thing
is fictional
I think that anybody
in the media
has a huge sense
of responsibility
that comes with the territory
whether they feel it or not
or take it on
I don't know
I think
it would be nice
if we lived in a world
where people felt
more responsible
because I think
a lot of what
is put out there
is very irresponsible
and I'm not even
talking about like
with true stories
of like history
where
you're distorting history
that's obviously
irresponsible
but there's so much
of our cultural
production
the corporate
production
that is
in my view
irresponsible
I take the responsibility
seriously
just because
I know
in that case
there are people
there were people
that were still
downrange
and in harm's way
so there were
all kinds of things
that I was careful
to not depict
because I didn't
want to put anybody
like that's the most
basic level of responsibility
right nobody should get hurt
because you burn
some classified thing
so like in terms of
like tactics
that are used
tactics or like
there was
at the time
in the war
there was
there was a
there was this
like jamming system
that was
that was
used
to help
prevent
like remote
detonation
of
of these IEDs
electronic jamming systems
and I didn't
depict that at all
and then after
the movie came out
a bunch of army guys
were like
that wasn't realistic
I'm like
yeah I mean
it is super realistic
but yes I left
some things out
because yeah
that makes sense
because people called me
and they were like
dude you can't put that in
that would be bad
yeah
so there's that level
of responsibility
but then there's another
responsibility to
to more like
mystical things
like truth and history
which I also feel
pretty acutely
what do
when you talk about
irresponsible depictions
like what
what do you mean by that
I mean I think
I think that like
I think that media
is really important
like to our culture
to our
to our
civilization
and
one way to think
about it is like
there's more
responsibility now
around
let's say
portraying diversity
we've
we've gotten a lot
better at
at least trying
to make
movies and television
shows that are more
reflective of like
what the country
really looks like
but there's other
areas where
I don't see
that same
level of
responsibility
one is like
the obvious one
that that the right
talks about all the time
is like
depiction of guns
and violence
where
there's just so much
and I
I mean I have
violence in this show
I'm not
I'm not like saying
like and I
and I
I'm not like
anti
firearm or anything
but
but but there's so much
irresponsible
kind of
taking heavy shit
that has real
consequences
and aestheticizing it
is irresponsible
to me
it's fucked
and
and
and
there's
that's a kind
of abuse
of I think
of like
the responsibility
that that
that comes
with the power
of telling stories
when you're telling
a story like
in a way
it's
it's a kind
of like
remote teaching
you're kind
of putting
something out
in the world
and saying
like this
is how it is
so that's
that's
another one
is like
plot
people abuse
plot all the time
which which kind
of bugs me
because
if I'm telling
you a story
and I
and the plot
is so
radically
disconnected
from how things
really work
I'm not talking
about science
fiction
but even
within science
fiction
if I pause
it to you
like here's
here are the set
of rules
of this story
and then I
break them
I think that's
really irresponsible
because it's
fucking with
people's heads
it's like
making them
dumber
in a certain
way that
I mean
it would take
me a while
to explain
but these
are the kinds
of things
that I think
about sometimes
no it makes
sense
like you're
trying to
do a film
that's impactful
but it's also
you it's it's
easy to follow
because you
understand that
this is how
people behave
and this is how
it really go
down
so here's an
example like
if I made a
movie about
Iraq
where
you ended
up feeling
like really
good about
the war
like a
feel-good
movie about
the war
yeah
happens all
the time
yeah
you know
I think
that's
irresponsible
not that
there aren't
like amazing
stories of
heroism
and not that
there aren't
moments about
that war
to feel good
about
but the
overall
gist of
it is
it like
was
a
catastrophe
how is it
managing that
when you're
dealing with
studios
and executives
and all these
different people
and you know
like they
is it difficult
to get people
on board
with what
you're trying
to do
you're really
trying to make
it authentic
and
I don't really
typically I haven't
really messed
with any of that
stuff
like we made
those movies
Catherine Bingham
and I made
those movies
like independently
oh that's
nice
so we
had
well that
makes sense
it was like
very cowboyish
you know
I mean
we had
financing
from
from a
whole bunch
of different
places
like we
pre-sold
the foreign
rights
so this
is getting
inside
baseball
but we
never had
to deal
with like
a Fox
or a
Universal
or a
Sony
and even
when we
made
Zero Dark
30
that was
financed
by one
person
Megan
Ellison
who just
wrote a
check
Jesus
what a
gangster
yeah
I love
Megan
shout out
to Megan
yeah
that's a
crazy move
how much
did that
movie cost
it depends
how you
it depends
if you
include
the
production
budget
I think
it was
around
40
million
dollars
and then
promotion
I think
she
put up
another
20
something
yeah
it's
pretty
big
luckily
it
worked
I
know
I
lost
some
money
I
lost
a lot
of her
money
on Detroit
so
oh
did
you
but
she
made
a lot
on
Zero Dark
30

Writer of Hurt Locker & Zero Dark Thirty on Bringing Realism to Movies

The Joe Rogan experience. It's such a good movie. Thank you. It's so good
because it's so like you
can see how he would be like that. You could see how he would be drawn to go
back there. You could
see how the pull of and the chaos of it all and then there's a scene where he's
I believe he's in
a supermarket and it's just fucking boring. Life is just the mundane normal
life and he just wants
to go back to war. Yeah. It's and I'm like I buy it all in you know it's like
it's very rare that you
know you see him there's like no suspension of disbelief. You buy him you're
watching that film
you're like whoa like I could see. Well that was a big part of what we were
trying to do was to was
to so I had been in I had been in Baghdad as a reporter in 2004 I guess and
um I had seen some of what what's depicted in the in the film and so I had
witnessed the bomb squad
going out and defusing bombs and then and I wrote an article about it and then
um the idea came
along for a screenplay. I had the idea to write a screenplay put it that way
and my whole thing is
over the course of a year I didn't know how to write a screenplay but my whole
thing is I was learning how
to do it and doing rewrites was to try to replicate the experience that I had
that I felt when I was
there. Okay so to do that there was a lot of craft and whatnot involved in how
to in creating that that I
had to learn but it also meant breaking a lot of rules of narrative and
storytelling that you normally
would do to make a movie effective but that in this case may would have made it
less authentic to the
experience like one for example is that most war movies are organized around a
mission it's like in
the beginning of the movie you're told hey this is what we got to do and then
the rest of the movie
plays out like Saving Private Ryan or what have you. When I was in Baghdad one
of the things I was struck by
was the this ceaseless like hamster wheel repetition of the war that it wasn't
organized around a single mission it was
this this feudal attempt to try to find all these bombs that had been
dispersed throughout the country by the counter insurgency
so I couldn't organize it around a mission I had at least in my mind to keep it
authentic
I had to kind of make the story
similar enough to the reality which was like everyday new mission like a kind
of
you know episodic structure they call it so there are all these decisions along
the way that get made
to create that feeling that you have where you go oh I can suspend I can
suspend my disbelief because
this feels this feels real and
then there's the point at which
like you do all this research I did all that research of actually going there
hanging out with
these guys talking to them witnessing what they were doing trying to get deep
inside of it learning about
IEDs and how they work and really getting inside their mentality hanging out
with them
and then there's another point at which you kind of put yourself into the piece
too
and it's funny that you mentioned the scene at the end
and it's it's been really instructive to me because
when I was doing screenings for the Hurt Locker a lot of times
at the end of the screening like a vet would come up and that scene
in the grocery store
where
Sergeant James that's the character name was like kind of
first time back from the war
and he's he's like overwhelmed by the commercialism
of the supermarket
and all the choices of cereal
and it's not just that it's boring
it's that it's like
so meaningless compared to what he'd just been doing
and he can't
he can't function and you've seen this guy
operate on such a high level
for the past whatever it is
hour and a half
yeah there's a scene right there
oh
he can't choose you know
all this like uh
consumer shit
it was such a good representation of what
these guys have to go through
but my
and Renner is so good there too
he's amazing
but that that actual thing had happened to me
coming back
I felt this sense of dislocation
and I was only there for like a couple weeks
but I felt this sense of like
how surreally
grotesque like certain parts of our
wealth are
after you're in
after you see this poverty
and you see the hardship of the war
so that was like my thing
that wasn't like a research thing
and it's just interesting
it was like totally from my heart
and I remember putting it in
and thinking
this is one of the rare things in the movie
that like I didn't get from
reporting
and
it actually
turned out to be
one of the things that translated the most
to other people
and it kind of taught me about like
well sometimes if you just dig deep enough
probably
there's a chance anyway
that like
your experiences
or my experiences
if you're really being honest about them
and this goes back to where we started this conversation
will translate to other people
even if you don't
even if you think they're super hyper fucking specific to you
yeah
does that make sense
yes
it might be hyper specific
so that's what I'm
so
relatable
it's relatable because
it is in retrospect
but at the time I was like
this is just a weird thing that happened to me
no but you nailed it
because you
because in the context of the movie
you know
you see that this guy is
I mean every time he's defusing a bomb
this could be it
and
he's over there
in this
this chaos ridden
war zone
and then he comes back
and he's wandering through a supermarket aisle
it was perfect
it was the perfect juxtaposition
and it really does
you
you
you do relate to it
because I think all of us are aware
that
you kind of get accustomed
to whatever you're around
you know
you get accustomed to
a chaotic home life
or a peaceful home life
you get
a very busy workplace
where things
people are yelling at each other
and everything's constantly moving fast
or
boring
droning
cubicle life
like
people understand
that there's like certain
ways
of living
and existing
that you can get accustomed to
and they kind of make sense
when you've adjusted
and adapted to them
but then
to have
such a clear
difference
between being in a war zone
and being in a supermarket
it was
it was perfect
well thanks
I'll take that
yeah
no it was really good man
it's like
what
what does it feel like
to have the responsibility
of trying to relay
one of the most complex aspects
of
human life
which is war
it's funny
when you said perfect
I just flashed on
not to not answer your question
but I remember
there was some reviewer
at the time
that called it
a near perfect movie
oh
and I remember
calling him up
and being like
near perfect
what the fuck
like is that near
really necessary
well
because I want to put it on the
I wanted to put it on the DVD
anyway we did
we left it out there
it's still
I mean you know
but
it's hard for someone to say
something's absolutely perfect
no of course
it's stupid
nothing's perfect
but
that's funny
when you said perfect
what the fuck bro
near perfect
what's near
what more do you want
yeah
no I do feel
the sense of responsibility
I mean I think that
I think we're all responsible
I think
whether you're doing
a topic like that
where I tend to do
real life stuff
although this
most recent thing
is fictional
I think that anybody
in the media
has a huge sense
of responsibility
that comes with the territory
whether they feel it or not
or take it on
I don't know
I think
it would be nice
if we lived in a world
where people felt
more responsible
because I think
a lot of what
is put out there
is very irresponsible
and I'm not even
talking about like
with true stories
of like history
where
you're distorting history
that's obviously
irresponsible
but there's so much
of our cultural
production
the corporate
production
that is
in my view
irresponsible
I take the responsibility
seriously
just because
I know
in that case
there are people
there were people
that were still
downrange
and in harm's way
so there were
all kinds of things
that I was careful
to not depict
because I didn't
want to put anybody
like that's the most
basic level of responsibility
right nobody should get hurt
because you burn
some classified thing
so like in terms of
like tactics
that are used
tactics or like
there was
at the time
in the war
there was
there was a
there was this
like jamming system
that was
that was
used
to help
prevent
like remote
detonation
of
of these IEDs
electronic jamming systems
and I didn't
depict that at all
and then after
the movie came out
a bunch of army guys
were like
that wasn't realistic
I'm like
yeah I mean
it is super realistic
but yes I left
some things out
because yeah
that makes sense
because people called me
and they were like
dude you can't put that in
that would be bad
yeah
so there's that level
of responsibility
but then there's another
responsibility to
to more like
mystical things
like truth and history
which I also feel
pretty acutely
what do
when you talk about
irresponsible depictions
like what
what do you mean by that
I mean I think
I think that like
I think that media
is really important
like to our culture
to our
to our
civilization
and
one way to think
about it is like
there's more
responsibility now
around
let's say
portraying diversity
we've
we've gotten a lot
better at
at least trying
to make
movies and television
shows that are more
reflective of like
what the country
really looks like
but there's other
areas where
I don't see
that same
level of
responsibility
one is like
the obvious one
that that the right
talks about all the time
is like
depiction of guns
and violence
where
there's just so much
and I
I mean I have
violence in this show
I'm not
I'm not like saying
like and I
and I
I'm not like
anti
firearm or anything
but
but but there's so much
irresponsible
kind of
taking heavy shit
that has real
consequences
and aestheticizing it
is irresponsible
to me
it's fucked
and
and
and
there's
that's a kind
of abuse
of I think
of like
the responsibility
that that
that comes
with the power
of telling stories
when you're telling
a story like
in a way
it's
it's a kind
of like
remote teaching
you're kind
of putting
something out
in the world
and saying
like this
is how it is
so that's
that's
another one
is like
plot
people abuse
plot all the time
which which kind
of bugs me
because
if I'm telling
you a story
and I
and the plot
is so
radically
disconnected
from how things
really work
I'm not talking
about science
fiction
but even
within science
fiction
if I pause
it to you
like here's
here are the set
of rules
of this story
and then I
break them
I think that's
really irresponsible
because it's
fucking with
people's heads
it's like
making them
dumber
in a certain
way that
I mean
it would take
me a while
to explain
but these
are the kinds
of things
that I think
about sometimes
no it makes
sense
like you're
trying to
do a film
that's impactful
but it's also
you it's it's
easy to follow
because you
understand that
this is how
people behave
and this is how
it really go
down
so here's an
example like
if I made a
movie about
Iraq
where
you ended
up feeling
like really
good about
the war
like a
feel-good
movie about
the war
yeah
happens all
the time
yeah
you know
I think
that's
irresponsible
not that
there aren't
like amazing
stories of
heroism
and not that
there aren't
moments about
that war
to feel good
about
but the
overall
gist of
it is
it like
was
a
catastrophe
how is it
managing that
when you're
dealing with
studios
and executives
and all these
different people
and you know
like they
is it difficult
to get people
on board
with what
you're trying
to do
you're really
trying to make
it authentic
and
I don't really
typically I haven't
really messed
with any of that
stuff
like we made
those movies
Catherine Bingham
and I made
those movies
like independently
oh that's
nice
so we
had
well that
makes sense
it was like
very cowboyish
you know
I mean
we had
financing
from
from a
whole bunch
of different
places
like we
pre-sold
the foreign
rights
so this
is getting
inside
baseball
but we
never had
to deal
with like
a Fox
or a
Universal
or a
Sony
and even
when we
made
Zero Dark
30
that was
f