Name: Dangers of the Amazon and Uncontacted Tribes
Uploaded: 2023-07-27T17:29:28.000Z
Description: Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Dangers of the Amazon and Uncontacted Tribes' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2023-07-27. Transcript available.

Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Dangers of the Amazon and Uncontacted Tribes' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2023-07-27. Transcript available.

- The Joe Rogan Experience.
- I was very lost and very alone,
and I was like on like day six or something
of being lost, I don't remember.
No, it wasn't that long of a solo.
But I was lost and I was scared.
And I was in a hammock. - How did you get lost?
- Well, as soon as you leave the river,
like you could literally walk 15 feet
and then be like, "I'm just gonna come right back."
And the jungle will like blare with you.
You will, 'cause it's all green.
So you just like think you know what you're doing.
Like just last week I took people,
I wanted to cross from one trail to another trail
and I was like, "I'm a guide, I can do this."
And I came back out on the same trail like a half hour later
and I was like, "Yup, that's what I meant to do, let's go."
Like happens to JJ all the time.
- Really?
- You cannot find your way in the jungle.
- Do you use a compass?
- Don't use a compass.
- Why not?
- Because actually, apparently some of the iron content
and some of the saps in the trees pulls the needle.
It doesn't work really well.
- Even the trees are trying to trick you.
- Oh my God.
- GPS is run out of batteries.
You know, it's like, it's like you really just,
you have to learn your bushcraft.
You have to learn how to navigate in the jungle.
And it's like there, which is pretty much,
you have to get just amazing at dead reckoning
and remembering your course.
Because it's so dense that like we play with people.
We go, you know, we go see if you can go from here to there.
And it's like, they can't, they can't go there.
They can't do that as soon as you leave the river.
So like I had gone out on the solo, gotten lost, gotten scared.
And then been like, oh shit.
What if I just like into the wild did myself?
What if now I'm going to be the next kid that went and died in the Amazon.
And like, I like slept in a, in the, in the hammock, but this is like, as I was
learning.
So I didn't realize that the, the, the hammock that I had bought had a mosquito
net on top,
but the back was not mosquito proof so they could stick through.
So my back was being destroyed by mosquitoes as I'm trying to sleep and like a
couple of nights of that.
And so I finally fall asleep and I wake up in the middle of the night and I
hear breathing right next to my face.
And I like wanted to turn my headlamp on and I just hear like, right here.
Like I could feel her breath and I was like six inches away from a jaguar's
face.
And she just like, you know, and then left and she just came in.
She wanted to see what that was.
She was like, you're not going to move.
That's what you're not going to do.
She growled like right into my ear and then later on, that one's cute though.
That's a cute picture.
That's a cute jag.
Wow.
And they vary in, in colors and the, the spots and everything, right?
Like some of them are much darker.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, yeah, actually somebody recently was like, um, where do you see
panthers?
And I went on this whole thing of like, you know, a leopard or a jaguar, just
like you can have albinos.
You have a melanistic one.
Yeah.
Wow.
So like people would call that a panther, but a panther is not, not a real,
there's no animal that's a panther.
It's like a Kleenex.
It's like, it's a, it's just another name for it.
That is so beautiful.
But a black jag.
Look at that thing.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
That's beautiful.
Yeah.
In South India, they have the black leopards.
What an amazing looking animal.
Look at the muscles.
Yeah.
It's an amazing killing machine.
And so humans don't get taken out by them.
I can only really speak for our region of the Amazon, but there's,
I haven't even heard a story about it.
Really?
No one, like no one.
Our, our Jags are just, we have like record numbers of Jags.
Like I think they're listed as near threatened.
And we have like some of the strongest remaining Jaguar populations in the
world.
It's incredible.
And you barely see them.
We barely see them.
The last one I saw was two years ago.
And some people like go their whole lives without seeing them.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, cause people walk off into the jungle and they don't realize people,
people, it's
so funny living in the wild and seeing people show up there and it's like
people come and
they're like, they smell like shampoo and cologne and bug spray and deodorant.
And they're just like, if to an animal that has such better senses than we do,
they might
as well just have like sirens on them.
And like you are this shiny glittering fog horn of attention in the jungle.
And like every animal is going to run away from you.
And so people are always like, how come you go out and you see so much stuff?
And it's like, I only shower in the river.
I live out in the jungle.
I smell like they do.
Like I'm out there for weeks and it's like, I'm not going and like shampooing
my hair.
It's like, and so like to these animals, like they know when you're coming.
Like a Jag is just going to be like, oh, there's a human there.
Do you wash with soap when you wash in the river?
I do.
I do.
I do use a biodegradable soap.
You have to keep your skin clean or else you just get infections.
But like for the most part, like my clothing, everything, like I don't use
anything
that's scented because of that, because I want to be out there and, and just
blend in.
And that's whether I'm out in the field with elephants or whether you're out in,
you know,
in Africa or India or whether you're in the Amazon, I want to be sort of like
included.
I want to blend in.
And so like not that long ago, I was checking a camera trap and I heard, I
thought it was
a, we had students at our research station at the time.
And I heard like the leaves going and it was like September.
So the jungle was dry and I turned around and I was going to scare this person
because
I was going to be like, who walks that loud in the jungle?
Like, have you never, you have no respect.
And I turned around with my finger up and this jag walked right by me on the
trail and just
like, what's up?
I just kept walking.
And I was like, finger up.
And I was like, okay.
Oh Lord.
But I took that as good because at least I was, my, my like scent trail was,
was so
that he didn't know I was there.
I could see it on his face.
He didn't care.
He was like, hey, but I mean, it was six feet away.
He just, he didn't even break his stride.
He just walked by me.
He was like, yo, what's up?
They don't think of you as food.
So they just keep moving.
No.
And I think they're, you know, with big cats, they're, they're, the mothers
teach the young
how to hunt.
And I think they're so oriented, like with tigers, they're so oriented on
horizontal,
you know, get the neck from underneath, break the neck from up top.
And it's like, when they see a vertical animal walking by, I think they're like,
first of all,
I don't know what this is.
Second of all, it smells weird.
Third of all, where do I even, you know, you got to be desperate to take that
risk.
Like, I don't think that, I don't think that they, lions are a different story,
but, but
with jags, with tigers, with leopards, I don't, I, I've never, ever felt any
fear being around
a jaguar, like any fear.
I don't even take pictures of them.
I just enjoy it.
Wow.
I let other people take pictures.
If I'm with people, I'll let them take pictures, but I like will not lift my
camera for a jack.
I'll just stand there and just.
Just take it in.
Yeah.
You get to see them so rarely.
I don't want to sit there finally seeing one and then put another screen in
front of my
face.
Right.
Look through it, through some glass, like.
Whoa.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's our camera.
That's from yours?
Yeah.
Wow.
Look at that thing.
Yeah.
That is so majestic.
What an amazing animal.
With those glowing eyes.
Well, that's the crazy thing.
You shine your headlamp into the, into the night.
And then when things look back at you, you got to wonder what it is.
It's like.
Well, when there's two eyes in the front, you know, there's two eyes in the
front.
Yeah.
But sometimes the deer, but then the jags do this thing where they move their
head like
this.
They're like, they try and see around your headlamp.
They'll like do this little side to side thing.
Like the deer, they'll just blink at you.
They'll just blink.
And so you start learning the eye shines.
You start learning the, you know, because then you can be out there at night
and you look
at something and people are like, oh shit, dude, it's a jag.
And it's like, no, it's a deer.
When you were saying that the uncontacted tribe were speaking in monkey calls,
how do they,
what are they doing?
So, uh, JJ's dad used to tell us, he said, if you're ever out in the forest and
something
doesn't sound right, he was like, get out of there.
And he was like, because they will use the tinamu calls.
Like the, uh, undulated tinamu is like, but like, we know what that sounds like,
but we
also know what it doesn't sound like.
And so like every now and then you'll hear one that's, you know, different.
And like, we all get freaked out because we're like, those are, that's how we
do it.
That's how JJ taught me to do it.
Like if there was a bunch of tourists right there and JJ wanted me to come over
and like
chill with him and we wanted to go hang, he would just do that and get my
attention.
And like, I know that it's not a tinamu, I know it's JJ.
And so it's like, they've taken that to a whole nother level where they can
communicate.
And so there was a group of guys who was up river and they got surrounded.
They heard monkey calls coming from different directions and they realized that
they were
completely surrounded.
And they, like at least one of the guys who was saying, who was telling it to
me, he got
in the water and like crawled like a turtle and like escaped.
And then the tribe showed up and then there was this whole showdown where they,
they actually
shot one of the community members.
And then one of the guys who knows some of their language was saying that they,
it looked
like they were mad with the guy that shot the guy.
They were mad with him.
Like, they were like, why did you do that?
Now there's going to be retaliation.
Like, why did you shoot him?
And like, there was like a whole discussion happening while these people were
like huddled in
the stream waiting to see if they got killed too.
So it's like, I don't really on, you know, because when you get these loggers
going in
there, it's like, yeah, we'll pay you to protect the rainforest.
I'm like, you don't have to do this.
You don't have to be going into these, these areas that are that dangerous.
So yeah.
So at this point now though, part, you know, through all of this though, we've
established
jungle keepers.
We have 50,000 acres.
We're trying to do 300,000 acres.
And if we can do that, we'll basically be helping to establish one of the
largest protected
areas in the Amazon rainforest, which will encompass these uncontacted people.
And they can stay uncontacted and they can stay safe and do whatever they want
to do in
the jungle, guarding the secret pyramids and the giant ground sloths or
whatever the hell
it is that they do.
But we're close.
Now, how many uncontacted tribes are they aware of?
I think there's like over a hundred different groups across the Amazon.
Wow.
There's also varying degrees of, and the other thing is the conversation so
often gets turned
to like, they're, you know, violent and that they're, they're people to live
out in the
jungle.
And I have no idea how they do it either because, you know, at night we need
headlamps.
We don't have night vision.
All the animals have night vision.
So it's like, what do they do that night?
They, they're able to make fire in the jungle at night, every day.
You, if I gave you an entire book of matches, me and you, we sat down right now
in the jungle.
I was like, okay, cool.
You got a machete and a book of matches.
First one to make fire wins.
We couldn't do it.
It's wet.
Everything is wet.
So how are they, what are, you know, what's their, are they doing bow drill?
Are they doing, what are they doing?
We don't know.
We don't really know.
No, we don't know how they do that.
We don't know how they stay infection free.
We don't know what they do with their old people.
We never see old people.
We never really see children.
And so like they move around and they, we see like groups of men on beaches.
We see like that picture, that aerial picture where you see like a family group
out that's
in turtle season where you have turtles laying their eggs on the beaches and
the tribes
will come out because that's easy food.
You just pick up turtle eggs and eat them.
But there's so much that we don't know about their lifestyle and like people
get so many
things wrong.
Just, you know, if you leave them alone, then they won't kill you.
If you, you know, then people go, oh, they're stone age tribes.
And it's like, well, they're not stone age tribes because they're, they're
alive right
now and you couldn't live out in the jungle, but they can.
Right.
So it's like, there's elements of their, you know, their, their botanical
knowledge,
their medicinal knowledge, their creation myths, their view of history.
I mean, they're, they're coming at reality from a whole different perspective
than we
are.
Wow.
And there's really no way to get, does anyone speak their language?
Do we know what language they all speak?
Is it universal?
Do they have different languages?
It's not universal.
And there was someone in our region who like captured a child from the uncontacted,
raised
them in a very remote community.
And people have tried, anthropologists have tried, they've been like, Hey, so
what was it
like when you grew up?
And it's, it's like, it's dark.
He's just like, I don't remember.
Like no one's been able to get any information out of him.
How old was he when they captured?
I think like six, like under 10 for sure.
Does he not remember?
Does he just not want to talk about it?
I don't know.
That's, that's, that's the, these are, there's, there's all, there's all these
underlying stories.
Um, oh man.
Yeah.
That's just, there's just, then last year it's some loggers went to a place
they shouldn't
have gone and they got, they got whacked and, uh, sort of like the, you know,
like the WhatsApp
underground in Peru, like everyone was sending each other pictures.
Cause one of the cops like sent to his family a picture of what the bodies
looked like on
like day six, laying on the beach with arrows in them and shit.
And it was like, Oh my God.
It was like, it's just, it makes you stay in bed at night.
You're just like, I am not going out.
Jesus.
But I mean, yeah, it's just, it's a complicated topic because there's people
that want to
contact them.
There's people that want to leave them alone.
And then of course there's missionaries that are like, they need the Bible.
What did you think about Lost City of Z?
Um, I loved the book.
I wanted more from the movie.
Um, of course.
Yeah.
There's only so much time and yeah.
Um, Hollywood fuckery.
Oh God.
Um, the book was fantastic and that guy was out of his mind, out of his mind,
out of his
mind.
Uh, Percy Fawcett.
Yeah.
Percy Fawcett.
But like the fact that he could go on those expeditions and not get infected.
I've been, I've been, I've been brutally like, let me show you, I'll show you
this picture.
I don't think there's any way of pulling this up, but like, the, like, the
jungle just gets
into your skin.
What is that on your face?
Uh, MRSA infection.
It like started, it started like, you know, mosquito bites and then I would
scratch and
you don't realize you're spreading it with your fingernails and you go like
this and shit.
And so then, I mean, I almost died from that.
Like that was, but I was staying in the jungle to like take care of an anteater.
But it's like, how did you get free of that?
Like if you're in the jungle, do you use antibiotics?
Go home.
You just go home.
I had to go home at that point.
I got to, I remember I got to JFK and the, the guy, you know, he like looked
down at my
passport.
He goes, yeah, what were you doing in Peru?
And then he looked up at me and he goes, buddy, what the fuck?
And I was like, I'm just trying to get back.
He's like stamped it.
He was like, go, go, go, go, go.
He's like, go, go to the doctor.
I can't, I can't believe they let me through.
Right.
You could have been infected with some crazy plague.
Could have had like monkey Ebola.
Like it was, it looked bad.
And I spent days in the hospital.
Like it was, it was really, really bad.
Um, but for Percy Fawcett to not, they would say like other people would be
dying.
There was somebody, I think the guy's name was Murray.
He came from the Shackleton XP.
He'd already been out with Shackleton.
So he was like, I'm a real explorer.
And he lasted, he didn't last any time with, with, uh, with Fawcett because
Percy Fawcett was
just like, you can't keep up, go die.
You can go die with the, with the mules.
Like he just wouldn't stop.
So my question is, it's like, did he go out and eventually get killed?
Or did he eventually go out and like find the tribe that made him their king?
And just, there's no knowledge, there's no knowledge of it.
Yeah.
No one really knows what happened to him.
And they said in that book that over a hundred people have died looking for him
since he left.
Cause then the other expeditions that have gone out, all of those have died too.

Dangers of the Amazon and Uncontacted Tribes

- The Joe Rogan Experience.
- I was very lost and very alone,
and I was like on like day six or something
of being lost, I don't remember.
No, it wasn't that long of a solo.
But I was lost and I was scared.
And I was in a hammock. - How did you get lost?
- Well, as soon as you leave the river,
like you could literally walk 15 feet
and then be like, "I'm just gonna come right back."
And the jungle will like blare with you.
You will, 'cause it's all green.
So you just like think you know what you're doing.
Like just last week I took people,
I wanted to cross from one trail to another trail
and I was like, "I'm a guide, I can do this."
And I came back out on the same trail like a half hour later
and I was like, "Yup, that's what I meant to do, let's go."
Like happens to JJ all the time.
- Really?
- You cannot find your way in the jungle.
- Do you use a compass?
- Don't use a compass.
- Why not?
- Because actually, apparently some of the iron content
and some of the saps in the trees pulls the needle.
It doesn't work really well.
- Even the trees are trying to trick you.
- Oh my God.
- GPS is run out of batteries.
You know, it's like, it's like you really just,
you have to learn your bushcraft.
You have to learn how to navigate in the jungle.
And it's like there, which is pretty much,
you have to get just amazing at dead reckoning
and remembering your course.
Because it's so dense that like we play with people.
We go, you know, we go see if you can go from here to there.
And it's like, they can't, they can't go there.
They can't do that as soon as you leave the river.
So like I had gone out on the solo, gotten lost, gotten scared.
And then been like, oh shit.
What if I just like into the wild did myself?
What if now I'm going to be the next kid that went and died in the Amazon.
And like, I like slept in a, in the, in the hammock, but this is like, as I was
learning.
So I didn't realize that the, the, the hammock that I had bought had a mosquito
net on top,
but the back was not mosquito proof so they could stick through.
So my back was being destroyed by mosquitoes as I'm trying to sleep and like a
couple of nights of that.
And so I finally fall asleep and I wake up in the middle of the night and I
hear breathing right next to my face.
And I like wanted to turn my headlamp on and I just hear like, right here.
Like I could feel her breath and I was like six inches away from a jaguar's
face.
And she just like, you know, and then left and she just came in.
She wanted to see what that was.
She was like, you're not going to move.
That's what you're not going to do.
She growled like right into my ear and then later on, that one's cute though.
That's a cute picture.
That's a cute jag.
Wow.
And they vary in, in colors and the, the spots and everything, right?
Like some of them are much darker.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, yeah, actually somebody recently was like, um, where do you see
panthers?
And I went on this whole thing of like, you know, a leopard or a jaguar, just
like you can have albinos.
You have a melanistic one.
Yeah.
Wow.
So like people would call that a panther, but a panther is not, not a real,
there's no animal that's a panther.
It's like a Kleenex.
It's like, it's a, it's just another name for it.
That is so beautiful.
But a black jag.
Look at that thing.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
That's beautiful.
Yeah.
In South India, they have the black leopards.
What an amazing looking animal.
Look at the muscles.
Yeah.
It's an amazing killing machine.
And so humans don't get taken out by them.
I can only really speak for our region of the Amazon, but there's,
I haven't even heard a story about it.
Really?
No one, like no one.
Our, our Jags are just, we have like record numbers of Jags.
Like I think they're listed as near threatened.
And we have like some of the strongest remaining Jaguar populations in the
world.
It's incredible.
And you barely see them.
We barely see them.
The last one I saw was two years ago.
And some people like go their whole lives without seeing them.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, cause people walk off into the jungle and they don't realize people,
people, it's
so funny living in the wild and seeing people show up there and it's like
people come and
they're like, they smell like shampoo and cologne and bug spray and deodorant.
And they're just like, if to an animal that has such better senses than we do,
they might
as well just have like sirens on them.
And like you are this shiny glittering fog horn of attention in the jungle.
And like every animal is going to run away from you.
And so people are always like, how come you go out and you see so much stuff?
And it's like, I only shower in the river.
I live out in the jungle.
I smell like they do.
Like I'm out there for weeks and it's like, I'm not going and like shampooing
my hair.
It's like, and so like to these animals, like they know when you're coming.
Like a Jag is just going to be like, oh, there's a human there.
Do you wash with soap when you wash in the river?
I do.
I do.
I do use a biodegradable soap.
You have to keep your skin clean or else you just get infections.
But like for the most part, like my clothing, everything, like I don't use
anything
that's scented because of that, because I want to be out there and, and just
blend in.
And that's whether I'm out in the field with elephants or whether you're out in,
you know,
in Africa or India or whether you're in the Amazon, I want to be sort of like
included.
I want to blend in.
And so like not that long ago, I was checking a camera trap and I heard, I
thought it was
a, we had students at our research station at the time.
And I heard like the leaves going and it was like September.
So the jungle was dry and I turned around and I was going to scare this person
because
I was going to be like, who walks that loud in the jungle?
Like, have you never, you have no respect.
And I turned around with my finger up and this jag walked right by me on the
trail and just
like, what's up?
I just kept walking.
And I was like, finger up.
And I was like, okay.
Oh Lord.
But I took that as good because at least I was, my, my like scent trail was,
was so
that he didn't know I was there.
I could see it on his face.
He didn't care.
He was like, hey, but I mean, it was six feet away.
He just, he didn't even break his stride.
He just walked by me.
He was like, yo, what's up?
They don't think of you as food.
So they just keep moving.
No.
And I think they're, you know, with big cats, they're, they're, the mothers
teach the young
how to hunt.
And I think they're so oriented, like with tigers, they're so oriented on
horizontal,
you know, get the neck from underneath, break the neck from up top.
And it's like, when they see a vertical animal walking by, I think they're like,
first of all,
I don't know what this is.
Second of all, it smells weird.
Third of all, where do I even, you know, you got to be desperate to take that
risk.
Like, I don't think that, I don't think that they, lions are a different story,
but, but
with jags, with tigers, with leopards, I don't, I, I've never, ever felt any
fear being around
a jaguar, like any fear.
I don't even take pictures of them.
I just enjoy it.
Wow.
I let other people take pictures.
If I'm with people, I'll let them take pictures, but I like will not lift my
camera for a jack.
I'll just stand there and just.
Just take it in.
Yeah.
You get to see them so rarely.
I don't want to sit there finally seeing one and then put another screen in
front of my
face.
Right.
Look through it, through some glass, like.
Whoa.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's our camera.
That's from yours?
Yeah.
Wow.
Look at that thing.
Yeah.
That is so majestic.
What an amazing animal.
With those glowing eyes.
Well, that's the crazy thing.
You shine your headlamp into the, into the night.
And then when things look back at you, you got to wonder what it is.
It's like.
Well, when there's two eyes in the front, you know, there's two eyes in the
front.
Yeah.
But sometimes the deer, but then the jags do this thing where they move their
head like
this.
They're like, they try and see around your headlamp.
They'll like do this little side to side thing.
Like the deer, they'll just blink at you.
They'll just blink.
And so you start learning the eye shines.
You start learning the, you know, because then you can be out there at night
and you look
at something and people are like, oh shit, dude, it's a jag.
And it's like, no, it's a deer.
When you were saying that the uncontacted tribe were speaking in monkey calls,
how do they,
what are they doing?
So, uh, JJ's dad used to tell us, he said, if you're ever out in the forest and
something
doesn't sound right, he was like, get out of there.
And he was like, because they will use the tinamu calls.
Like the, uh, undulated tinamu is like, but like, we know what that sounds like,
but we
also know what it doesn't sound like.
And so like every now and then you'll hear one that's, you know, different.
And like, we all get freaked out because we're like, those are, that's how we
do it.
That's how JJ taught me to do it.
Like if there was a bunch of tourists right there and JJ wanted me to come over
and like
chill with him and we wanted to go hang, he would just do that and get my
attention.
And like, I know that it's not a tinamu, I know it's JJ.
And so it's like, they've taken that to a whole nother level where they can
communicate.
And so there was a group of guys who was up river and they got surrounded.
They heard monkey calls coming from different directions and they realized that
they were
completely surrounded.
And they, like at least one of the guys who was saying, who was telling it to
me, he got
in the water and like crawled like a turtle and like escaped.
And then the tribe showed up and then there was this whole showdown where they,
they actually
shot one of the community members.
And then one of the guys who knows some of their language was saying that they,
it looked
like they were mad with the guy that shot the guy.
They were mad with him.
Like, they were like, why did you do that?
Now there's going to be retaliation.
Like, why did you shoot him?
And like, there was like a whole discussion happening while these people were
like huddled in
the stream waiting to see if they got killed too.
So it's like, I don't really on, you know, because when you get these loggers
going in
there, it's like, yeah, we'll pay you to protect the rainforest.
I'm like, you don't have to do this.
You don't have to be going into these, these areas that are that dangerous.
So yeah.
So at this point now though, part, you know, through all of this though, we've
established
jungle keepers.
We have 50,000 acres.
We're trying to do 300,000 acres.
And if we can do that, we'll basically be helping to establish one of the
largest protected
areas in the Amazon rainforest, which will encompass these uncontacted people.
And they can stay uncontacted and they can stay safe and do whatever they want
to do in
the jungle, guarding the secret pyramids and the giant ground sloths or
whatever the hell
it is that they do.
But we're close.
Now, how many uncontacted tribes are they aware of?
I think there's like over a hundred different groups across the Amazon.
Wow.
There's also varying degrees of, and the other thing is the conversation so
often gets turned
to like, they're, you know, violent and that they're, they're people to live
out in the
jungle.
And I have no idea how they do it either because, you know, at night we need
headlamps.
We don't have night vision.
All the animals have night vision.
So it's like, what do they do that night?
They, they're able to make fire in the jungle at night, every day.
You, if I gave you an entire book of matches, me and you, we sat down right now
in the jungle.
I was like, okay, cool.
You got a machete and a book of matches.
First one to make fire wins.
We couldn't do it.
It's wet.
Everything is wet.
So how are they, what are, you know, what's their, are they doing bow 