Name: Joe Rogan Experience #2228 - Josh Dubin
Uploaded: 2024-11-13T18:00:34.000Z
Description: Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Joe Rogan Experience #2228 - Josh Dubin' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2024-11-13. Transcript available.

Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Joe Rogan Experience #2228 - Josh Dubin' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2024-11-13. Transcript available.

Joe Rogan Experience #2228 - Josh Dubin

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
What's up?
What's up, man?
Good to see you.
Good to see you.
So, I guess we just get right into it.
The last case that we talked about, we had a very unfortunate incident happen
after the
podcast about a month later.
Yeah.
The gentleman beheaded somebody.
Allegedly, yes.
Allegedly.
There's a lot of allegedly, but there's so many crazy things in that case.
The craziest thing was him trying to fool the security cameras with a wig.
Like, I guess he didn't know how high resolution cameras had gotten over the 25
years that he
was in jail.
I mean, apparently there's a lot he didn't know.
The only reason I say allegedly is because I'd be a bit of a hypocrite if I
started calling
him guilty before he has a trial.
Of course.
But based on the surveillance...
It doesn't look good.
Well, they say in Texas, it ain't too shiny.
It's so crazy because, you know, we went out with him that evening.
We brought him to the comedy club.
He was hanging out with us in the green room.
And then the news broke.
And then the comics were all like, hey, man, what the fuck?
What the fuck are you doing bringing that guy around?
I'm like, well, we didn't know.
I mean...
Who could have known he was going to do that other than him?
I'm as shocked over it now as I was in the moment.
I mean, yeah, I don't...
You know, there are no words.
I went through...
It's really not funny.
I mean, I'm only laughing out of sort of nervousness, I guess.
Of course.
I mean, I was in St. Louis of all places, which is only memorable because that's
where I was
when someone called me and said, have you looked at the news?
And I said, I was in court and I was on a break.
And, you know, I called him a miracle on this show.
And the media shoved that straight up my ass.
I mean...
Of course.
But that's what they're going to do.
Well, he was the only guy that you had ever brought in that was actually guilty,
that you
felt was in jail for too long.
You know, he got a 50-year sentence, correct?
70.
70.
And he was reduced to 25?
It was just basically time served.
He did about 30 years and they resentenced him.
And look, I would be...
I've had a lot of time to think about this.
And I know you and I have discussed it privately.
And I kind of went into a hole after this.
My first...
This didn't happen to me.
A lot of people say, I'm so sorry.
But some people have said other things that weren't very nice.
But the people that I, you know, regard their opinion were sorry that it didn't
happen to me.
My first thought was, I had two thoughts, was that poor guy that got killed.
And it was a gruesome murder.
You know, it wasn't just beheaded.
I think he was dismembered completely.
Well, he was trying to get rid of the body, right?
Allegedly.
Allegedly.
Allegedly.
And my first thought was for him and his family.
And then my, I think my second and third thought maybe in tandem was this tore
down 50 years of work that a lot of people have fought really hard for and
really need.
And I felt like I let you down.
You know, you've given us an amazing platform to get stories out for people
that really need help.
I think we've made a ton of progress.
We've got some exonerations as a direct result of this.
Yeah, you didn't let me down at all.
No, I didn't.
I appreciate that you felt like that.
It didn't feel like that to me at all.
It was just, listen, there's a reality of prison life.
There's a reality of being incarcerated.
There's a reality of taking a person who's convicted of a violent crime and
putting them in jail with violent people for 30 years.
There's just a reality.
And, you know, I don't know what history he had with this man that he allegedly
killed, but, you know, it's just like you can only take so much.
Yeah, I mean, listen, I don't know.
My first emotion, this is for me and my therapist, my first emotion is usually,
like, guilt.
So once I took a little bit of time and thought it through, I mean, of course,
I come on your show and then you're, you know, splattered all over the news for
something not positive.
Good news is I don't watch the news.
I don't pay attention and I don't listen to anything anybody writes about me.
So it didn't bother me at all.
You're rare.
So, look, for me, I have to take a hard look at what I'm doing and take the
mirror out and look straight in it and say, like, what did I do wrong?
You did nothing wrong.
Well, well.
I don't think you did anything wrong.
You just, you just, listen, the man had great qualities.
He, like, when you talk to him, he's very intelligent, very nice guy.
He just thought he could get away with getting payback on somebody.
Yeah, look, that's super gracious of you.
I'm not, whether I did something wrong or not, I typically go to blame.
And that's something that I have to, that's a kink I have to work out in my
personality.
But let me just articulate it because I think what I, the platform is so
important to me and getting these stories out is so important to me.
And I think that where I've landed is that he didn't let me down.
He didn't let, look, I was the public face of his resentencing.
There was a lot of great people involved.
And it wasn't just from the defense side.
The Center for Appellate Litigation had some amazing people working on his case.
The district attorney of Manhattan agreed to this.
So, on paper, even in their personal interactions with him, there was nothing
that raised a red flag for anyone.
He didn't let anyone down if he did this, which people will draw their own
conclusion.
He'll have a trial.
He didn't let anyone down if he did this but himself and the people that still
need help.
And I have to swallow the jagged pill that this work comes with some letdowns.
The recidivism rate for people that have served long sentences like that is
less than 1%.
It just happened to happen on a case where I was involved.
I have no...
Is it really that low?
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
If you look at exonerations, resentencings of people that have been
incarcerated for more than 20 years, it's that low.
And, you know, the harsh reality is that if you put someone on a public
platform and they then do what he supposedly did, it's going to make headlines.
I realized something, though, that, look, no one could have imagined what's in
the dark recesses of that man's soul, whether it's, you know, his group home
upbringing and abuse, the prison experience.
It's not to make an excuse.
He did it if he did it.
If he's convicted and he did it, that's on him.
What I'm guilty of is giving a guy a second chance.
And I am...
Why am I reluctant to say this?
I can't apologize for giving someone a second chance and then, you know, they
squander it.
All I can do is say, well, what could I have done better?
I mean, I have a deep understanding, I think, of what incarceration means.
I mean, I read this book.
I always get his name confused.
Is it Henry Jack Abbott or Jack Henry Abbott?
It's called In the Belly of the Beast.
When I was in college.
And it's a series of letters that this inmate wrote to Norman Mailer.
It's a fascinating book.
And about what incarceration does to somebody from the standpoint of the
practical day-to-day, from the deep psychosis inducing confinement and
everything else.
And two days before the book was released and it was reviewed by the New York
Times, the guy snapped and killed someone in the East Village.
And no one will know what it is like to be in there.
But what it has caused me to do is reevaluate and say, look, maybe I need to
take a much closer look at what sort of mental health counseling these folks
are getting.
Like, Sheldon, I arranged for him to be speaking to a trauma therapist.
Should I have been on him more to be going to those appointments?
Maybe.
What was the circumstances with the guy that he allegedly killed?
I don't know if I'm doing it just because I'm distancing myself from it
subconsciously.
But I don't know all the circumstances.
But apparently this was someone he knew from childhood and from in prison.
I've heard rumors and, you know, stories about the guy threatened his son to
– he slashed Sheldon when they were in prison.
I don't know if you remember.
Sheldon had this big gash across his face.
But I don't know.
And I frankly don't want to know at this point because someone lost their life.
And that, you know, I think unfortunately for my mental health, I just wear
that stuff.
You know, if I felt even remotely responsible for that, which I do, and, you
know, I have to – I can be at peace with it.
But I didn't cause that death.
And I don't – you know, I can take some responsibility for it in the sense
that what could I do going forward where – whether it's people that are being
exonerated for crimes they didn't commit or if it's people that are getting
resentenced.
You cannot undo decades of confinement.
You just can't.
And they all need mental health counseling, all of them.
And I have to put that on my shoulders.
I just do because, you know, they all have issues.
And they come out and need mental health counseling.
And there's a stigma attached to it, especially in the African-American
community.
And there shouldn't be.
It's no different than if you have a problem with your liver, you know, and you
have to take medication.
I mean, I've always been upfront about the fact that I'm on medication.
It's nothing to be ashamed of.
And it's especially warranted when you're in those circumstances.
Again, none of this is to make an excuse.
But I just think that there's a lot more emphasis that I can focus on assimilation
more.
And I think that making sure that they have job training and that they feel
safe when they get out.
I mean, there hasn't been one person who I've been involved in their case where
even when they're innocent, they get out and it's a fucking shock.
And I need to be a lot more sensitive to that, I think, and pay a lot more
attention to what they're doing, how they're doing.
Again, I had the foresight to put Sheldon in touch with and ensure that we were
getting him mental health counseling with a trauma therapist.
But, you know, I didn't want to meddle too much in that because it's on him to
go.
So, I mean, that's where I land, for better or for worse.
Well, if the guy really did slash his face, if you've been in literal mortal
combat with a person and this person is allegedly threatening your son or
whatever, you know, there's only so much you can do to stop a person from
seeking revenge.
I guess.
Especially if they don't have any hope outside of the system and they've been
completely institutionalized, which, given the length of his sentence, is
reasonable to assume.
Yeah, you're a lot more forgiving and understanding than a lot of people were
and have been about this.
You know, I've had, there's been two schools of thought in the reaction.
I mean, I got pretty nasty hate mail and I got a lot of words of encouragement.
I think the hate mail outweighed the words of encouragement.
Always.
But.
Psychologically, always.
I mean, by, in substance, number, and probably psychologically.
Yeah.
But that shit just gives me fuel.
You know, if you're sending me, fuck you, you race baiter, you this, you that.
Race baiter.
Oh, yeah.
I got a lot of that.
How are you a race baiter?
By telling the truth about the state of race and the criminal justice system in
this country.
You see, the thing is, the one force field I have around myself is when that's
incoming, I'm able to say, okay, thanks for the fuel.
Thanks for the fuel.
I'll never respond to it.
You know, unless you're doing mental health counseling in a prison, unless you're
a corrections officer, a police officer, know what it's like to be incarcerated.
You have no fucking business giving me your shitty opinion about what you think
I am or others that do this work.
Get in the fucking arena and do it yourself.
And I, you know, so I take that with a big grain of salt.
I had, you know, I have enough commo