Name: Joe Rogan Experience #2397 - Richard Lindzen & William Happer
Uploaded: 2025-10-21T17:00:56.000Z
Description: Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Joe Rogan Experience #2397 - Richard Lindzen & William Happer' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2025-10-21. Transcript available.

Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Joe Rogan Experience #2397 - Richard Lindzen & William Happer' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2025-10-21. Transcript available.

Joe Rogan Experience #2397 - Richard Lindzen & William Happer

The Joe Rogan experience
First of all, thank you very much for being here. I really appreciate it a
pleasure my pleasure
and if you don't mind would you please just tell everybody who you are and
state your
Your resume like what you do. I mean just a brief version of your
credentials. I'm Dick Linsen and my whole life has been in academia
Basically, I finished my doctorate at Harvard and I did spend a couple of years
at the University of Washington and in Norway and in Boulder, Colorado
Then part of that was because at Harvard I was working in atmospheric sciences
but they had no one who dealt with observations
So I went to Seattle
for someone who did and
then I got my first academic position at Chicago and
stayed there about three four years
Moved on to Harvard spent about ten years there and then to MIT for about the
last 35 years
Until I retired in 2013
I've always enjoyed it. I mean the field of atmospheric sciences
When I entered it, I mean the joy of it was a lot of problems that were solvable
So you could look at phenomena
One of them that
I worked on was the so-called quasi-biannual cycle
Turns out the wind above the equator about 16 kilometers
20 kilometers
Goes from east to west for a year
Turns around goes the other way for the next year and so on
And you know, we worked out why that happened and
There were other things like that
So it was a very enjoyable period
Until global warming
And sir, would you tell everybody what your credentials are? What you do? Where
are you from?
I'm Will Happer and I'm a retired professor of physics at Princeton
And like Dick, I'm a science nerd
But I was actually born in India under the British Raj
My father was an army officer in the Indian Army, Scottish
And my mother was American
And that was before World War II
So when I came to America as a small child
My mother was working in Oak Ridge for the Manhattan Project
So I remember, you know, the war days at Oak Ridge
And that's probably why I went into physics
I thought this looks like an interesting way to make a living
And if I can do it, I'll do it
And I have
And I've done a number of things
I spent a lot of time at universities at Columbia, at Princeton
I also served for a couple years in Washington
As director of energy research
Under President Bush, Sr.
And I've learned a lot about climate from Dick, my colleague here
I first became suspicious when I was director of energy research
I would invite people in to explain
How they were spending the taxpayers' money
And most people were delighted to come to Washington
And have some bureaucrat be interested in what they were doing
And there was one exception
That was the people working on climate
And they would always be very resentful
You know, we work for Senator Gore
We don't work for you
And so I would tell them
Well, okay, let him pay for your next year's research
I can find other people who will come and talk to me
Who would be glad to take my money
That's interesting
So Senator Gore has been involved in this whole climate thing
For quite a long time then
Oh, yes, very long time
When he was a senator
Before he was vice president
That's right
And when he made that movie, An Inconvenient Truth
What year was that again, Jamie?
It was like
98 or something?
Yeah
Something like that?
Yeah
99?
That
What is it?
Oh, really?
We're that off?
Wow
Okay
So 2006
So when he made that film
There was always
When I was a child
I do remember Leonard Nimoy
Had a television show called In Search Of
Remember that show?
Sure
And on that show
He warned of an oncoming ice age
Right
Do you remember that?
And I remember being a kid
And freaking out
Like, oh my God
Spock is telling us the world's gonna freeze
This is terrifying
And then somewhere along the line
It became global warming
And initially in the 80s
It was kind of funny
People were saying
Well, hairspray
The more you use it
You could play golf deep
Into November
That was the ozone
Yeah, it was the ozone
Yes
But it was also part of global warming
A little bit
They were worried about global warming
But they were worried about the ozone hole
It wasn't CO2 as much back then
CO2 seems to have really significantly
Become a part of the zeitgeist
After this Al Gore film
No
No?
No, it was before
No, it was
It was a study
In terms of academic study
For sure
But in terms of people panicking
When did CO2
Look, panicking
I have no idea
But
No, what happened was
There was
I would say
With the first Earth Day
1970
There was a real change
In the environmental movement
It began to focus
Much more strongly
On the energy sector
And much less on
Saving the whales
And there was a big difference
I mean
The energy sector
Involved trillions of dollars
The whales
Not so much
Right
And at that time
It was cooling
This global mean temperature
Which doesn't change much
But you know
You focus on one degree
A half degree
So it looks like something
And it was cooling
From the 1930s
1930s were very warm
And it was getting cooler
Until the 70s
And that's why
They were saying
Well
You know
This is going to lead
To an ice age
And they focused on that
For a while
And then in the 70s
And at that time
Well
What do you say
You know
If you're worried
About an ice age
They said
Well
It will be
The sulfate
Submitted by
Coal burning
Because that reflects light
And the less light
That we get
The colder we'll get
But then
The temperature
Stopped cooling
In the 70s
And started warming
And that's when
They said
Well
You have to warm
Now scare people
With warming
And you can't use
The sulfates anymore
But the
Scientists called
Suki Manabi
Showed that
Even though
CO2
Doesn't do much
In the way of warming
Doubling it
Would only give you
A half degree
Or so
But if you assumed
That relative humidity
Stayed constant
So that every time
You warmed a little
You added water vapor
Which is a much more
Important greenhouse gas
You would double
The impact
Of CO2
Which now gives you
A degree
Which still isn't
A heck of a lot
But still
It was saying
You could increase it
And that's when
People started saying
Well now
We better find CO2
It's increased
Because of
Industrialization
And so on
And that began
The demonization
Of CO2
Do you think
There's just
Always people
That are going
To point to
Anything like this
That's difficult
To define
And use it
To their advantage
Oh yeah
And this was
A particular case
You wanted to deal
You know
The energy sector
Is trillions
Of dollars
Anything you can do
To overturn it
Change it
To replace
Fossil fuels
It's big bucks
Right
And one of the
Odd things
I think
In politics
I don't see it
Studied much
Congress can
Actually give away
Trillions of dollars
If you look
If you look
If you look
At the McKinsey
Report
On
You know
Eliminating CO2
Net zero
They're saying
It'll cost
Hundreds
Of trillions
Of dollars
Well
If you're giving
Out that much
You don't need
That much
Of your politician
All you need
Is millions
For your campaigning
And all you're
Asking
Are the recipients
Of people
Who are getting
The money
That you are
Giving them
A half percent
A quarter percent
You're golden
So that's much
Better than
Giving out
A hundred thousand
And having
All of it back
Well the key though
Is also making it
A subject
That you cannot
Challenge
There's no room
For any rational
Debate
And if you discuss
It at all
You are now
A climate change
Denier
Which is like
Being an anti-vaxxer
Or you know
Fill in the blank
With whatever
Other horrible
Thing you could
Be called
Now that's
A very interesting
Phenomenon
I was looking
At it
On the one hand
You're told
The science
Is settled
Thousands
Of the world's
Leading
Climate scientists
All agree
Which often
Makes you wonder
I mean
You went to college
How many
Climate scientists
Did you know
I mean
A thousand
But on the other hand
If you read
The IPCC reports
They're pointing out
For instance
That water vapor
And clouds
Are much bigger
Than CO2
And we don't
Understand them
At all
So here you have
The biggest phenomenon
We don't understand
At all
But the science
Is settled
Who knows
What that means
Well it's also
There's this very
Bizarre dynamic
Of the earth's
Temperature itself
Which has never
Been static
No
How would it
Remain static
That would
Involve
A hugely
Reactive system
Doesn't make any sense
But everyone seems
To be buying this
Narrative
That the science
Is settled
And the earth
Is warming
We have to act now
You say everyone
I'm not so sure
No I don't say everyone
A lot of politicians
In particular
Politicians are very
Attractive to this
Because it gives them power
Right
And it's hard to define
And you can argue
And if you argue
Against it
You're a bad person
That's a good one
You do all that
But you know
We spend part of a year
In France
My wife is French
You know
Ordinary people
Once you get to the countryside
Don't take this
All that seriously
Here too
I suspect ordinary people
Have more skepticism
Than many people
Who are more educated
Yes but unfortunately
These ordinary people
Sometimes are impacted
By these politicians
Decisions
Where they have to
In the UK
They were getting rid of cows
They were forcing people
To kill cows
They're paying three times more
For their heating
And their electric bills
Right
Right
And it makes people poorer
It's making it almost impossible
To electrify parts of the world
That need it
And that involves billions of people
No I mean
It's doing phenomenal damage
And pain
But
You know
I think for politicians
And for many people
Who are well off
They need something
That gives meaning
To their life
And saving the planet
Seems sufficiently
Yes
Grandiose
Yes
How would
How are these net zero policies
Stopping people
From getting electricity
Well
By making it expensive
By eliminating fossil fuels
Fossil fuels are cheaper
At least
The experience in the UK
Is when you switch to
Quote renewables
It tripled the price of electricity
Right
But what I'm talking about
Is like third world countries
Parts of the world
That are undeveloped
They can't afford it
And that's all it is
They can't afford it
Yeah
And but they also
To if they didn't follow
These net zero policies
What kind of plants
Are we talking about
Are we talking about coal plants
Coal
Anything
Whatever is available
Yeah
I mean
You know
So you think
Even though coal
Does pollute the environment
And it releases particulates
Right
It's not
How should I put it
You know
It's always a matter of cost
We have a plant
I think in Alabama
That has
Basically as clean
As any other plant
That burns coal
You can clean it
You can scrub it
You can get rid of
Almost everything
Except CO2
Okay
So the particulates
Aren't as big of an issue
As they used to be
In the past
I agree
They're more efficient
Okay
Yeah
So stopping
So this net zero thing
Is stopping them
From installing
Modernized coal plants
In parts of the world
Oh yeah
That do not have electricity
And the overall net negative
Weighs much heavier
In not bringing these coal plants
I think so
And not bringing these people
Into the first world
And there are of course
The alternative natural gas
And so on
Which are available in places
You know
There are places
Where you have
You're lucky
Like in Norway
Or Canada
You know
Quebec
Where you have hydro
Which is intrinsically clean
But there's a problem
With politicians
I remember once
Being in D.C.
And some Republican politicians
Came and said
You know what we just did
We banned incandescent light bulbs
I said
Wasn't that a great thing
I said
That's the stupidest thing
I've heard today
What's the point
Because at the time
What was replacing it
Compact fluorescents
Which were awful
All they had to do
Was wait
And do nothing
And LEDs
Would come along
And people would say
Okay
I prefer that
Instead
They feel
They have to do something
And they would switch
The fluorescence
Which turned out
To be terrible
For people
Yeah
So incandescents
Aren't bad for you
They were simply
Less efficient
Than the
You know
In terms of
The number of watts
Of heat
They generate
Versus light
I mean
LEDs are phenomenal
That way
Right
They're the best
