Name: Joe Rogan Experience #2454 - Robert Malone, MD
Uploaded: 2026-02-13T18:00:57.000Z
Description: Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Joe Rogan Experience #2454 - Robert Malone, MD' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2026-02-13. Transcript available.

Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Joe Rogan Experience #2454 - Robert Malone, MD' from PowerfulJRE on Comedy Buff. Published 2026-02-13. Transcript available.

Joe Rogan Experience #2454 - Robert Malone, MD

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
Yep, we're up.
Okay.
We were trying to figure out how long it's been since you came here.
It's been somewhere in the neighborhood close to five years.
Yeah.
A lot of water under the bridge.
Your appearance on this show, boy, did that create a lot of problems.
Yeah.
Yeah, I didn't expect you ever having me on again.
I thought maybe Spotify was just going to say, hell no.
No, you were right.
Like, this is a victory dance.
Like, it turned out that all your warnings and all the things that you were
saying about the problems turned out to be true.
Well, thanks.
And I know you've said that on a few shows.
Every time you do, somebody sends me a clip and sees, hey, Rogan said you did
the right thing.
What was it like for you?
First of all, you know, they were trying to label you a quack and a kook and
someone who didn't know what they were talking about.
I don't think it worked with everybody.
I mean, it worked with people that weren't paying attention.
But anybody that really paid attention to your background said, no, this guy's
very credible.
I mean, don't you have, like, nine patents on mRNA vaccine technology?
Yeah, on the mRNA.
Yeah.
And a total of about 15, I think.
Yeah.
And you also took the vaccine and had a horrible adverse event.
A series of them, yeah.
Yeah.
That at the time, it was so early.
That was when the National Guard was still doing it.
And that was Moderna.
And I was embarrassed by to have these experiences.
And I was embarrassed when I got COVID in early 2020.
You know, looking back, there was so much fear, so much anger and anxiety and
everything wrapped around all of this.
And in retrospect, it was, you know, it was promoted, but it was also very
organic.
You know, it was, you know, looking back, being honest about it, it was a
frightening time what was happening.
And, yeah, I, you know, I had those experiences.
My doc, who was a cardiologist, was like, why were you so stupid to take this?
Your doctor said that to you.
In 2021?
Yeah.
Or 2020 or 20 what?
It was 2021, 2021.
Yeah.
I was going to a kind of a cardiologist that had left traditional medical
practice at UVA and the associated hospitals.
And I was going to her for hormone replacement therapy and bioidentical hormone
replacement therapy.
And she was monitoring a lot of things.
And, yeah, that was her response.
Why did you do this?
Of course, I've had that question a thousand times since.
You know, why were you so stupid?
You were the one that should have known.
And so I have to answer that still.
It just kind of gets a little tiresome.
What was your perspective on the vaccine before you took it?
Well, to be honest, I was a little, I was amazed.
I was amazed that the claims that the problems that I encountered when I had
been working on it had been solved.
I didn't see how that could be the case.
But I knew that a huge amount of money had been thrown at it.
So it was possible.
What were the problems?
In my hands, it was inflammation primarily.
It was also, you know, it was absolutely not localizable.
It was in the monkey models that we tested.
It was incredibly inflammatory.
It didn't give long levels, long, prolonged levels of expression.
It was hard to make.
It was kind of, back then, it was almost a little bit of witchcraft.
You'd drop, I mean, for me as a graduate student when I was doing that,
it was incredibly scary because it was a couple thousand dollars worth of reagents
in a little tiny tube.
And, you know, back in the late 80s, that was real money.
And it didn't always work, the reaction.
So, you know, it was a little bit of a wing and a prayer.
But then as I started working with animal models and with the different formulations,
I could come up with a variety of different compounds and formulations that
worked pretty well
in cell culture, but not so well in animals.
And I spent a lot of time trying to do that, optimize that.
And what I ended up with is just seeing that it really caused, you know,
I'm sorry to use medical jargon.
That's kind of where I'm from.
So that's the language.
No, it's probably better if you do.
It caused a lot of inflammation.
You know, white cell infiltrates, really aggressive white cell infiltrates in
my hands,
mice and monkeys.
And I'd abandoned it as something that just, you know, was useful in research,
particularly in cell culture.
But I just didn't see it maturing as an efficient delivery strategy with low
risk,
you know, acceptable risk in animals.
And that also became the experience in, at this company that I had first joined
where a lot
of the original patents were filed, Vicel.
They abandoned the RNA because they couldn't make it.
And they turned largely to this strange discovery that we had that was a
negative control,
that the RNA alone or DNA alone was actually more effective in animal models,
mice, for instance,
than it was to use the positively charged fats.
This now people call them lipid nanoplexes, lots of fancy words around it.
It was just positively charged fats of various types that were mixed that bind
the DNA or the
RNA and kind of spontaneously assemble.
And a lot of work went into trying to improve that.
We did what we could in the 90s when I was at Davis to try to advance that
technology and develop new lipids.
And we had a number of them get patented and they were marketed by ProMega and
others, but could
never solve the delivery in vivo.
But this group up in University of British Columbia that had been banging away
at this kind of related
liposome tech for years and years, even before, you know, I had known anything
about it,
were the ones that kind of came up with the magic sauce that is used
essentially by both the
Moderna and Pfizer products.
And that's the stuff that we've all been exposed to, those that have taken it.
So when you were first experimenting, you said it couldn't be localized.
So meaning that in the injection site, it was supposed to be there and then
your body was
supposed to produce antibodies because of the injection.
Yeah, and it goes all over.
But it went all over the body.
Yeah, it does.
But the assertion, what they were telling you when you got the shot initially
was that
it was not going to leave the injection site.
Yeah, and I called my colleagues at University of British Columbia that I had
known back in the day
as I was grappling with whether or not to take the product because I had to
travel.
And as you recall back then, forget international travel if you weren't jabbed.
Even national travel.
Yeah.
You couldn't get on an airplane.
But in Canada, it was even worse.
You couldn't get on a train.
Yeah, so I called Peter and had a chat with him.
And he said that they had solved the problems of the distribution that now when
you injected
it, it would stay local.
It would go to the draining lymph nodes.
It was much more effective and that they didn't have those safety issues
anymore.
So that was one of the reasons why I decided to go ahead.
Did you ask how they solved that problem?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I asked in detail because I knew some of the nature of the formulations.
Again, I don't want to get too technical.
But what was claimed was that the incorporation of polyethylene glycol, so this
is, you know,
you would know that as antifreeze.
But it's in the liposome world, it's long been known as a way to create what
are known
as stealth liposomes that circulate in your body for a long period of time and
make it
so that these particles don't get inactivated by extracellular proteins and the
liver and
stuff like that.
And so he was using, the gentleman in particular is named Peter Cullis.
By the way, he's the one that should have got the Nobel Prize for these
products as far
as I'm concerned and got slighted in the pick.
But Peter Cullis said that he had, they had experimented with a lot of
different structures
of the fat particles, chemical structures.
So they came up with some that had these properties of staying localized and
then built the formulations
in ways that were similar to what I'd done with cholesterol and other things.
But then also added these shorter polyethylene glycol molecules attached with a
really short
organic, you call it fat or gasoline-like molecule, that put the peg into the
liposome particle.
But in a way that once it got into the body, it would fall off.
And so this is, you know, some people have the sensation as I did with my
second jab of,
you know, you get it and then suddenly you feel tingling in the end of your
fingers or things
like that.
That may be the peg.
But it was those advances in the components, because these are self-assembling
particles,
that were used that Peter and his group, Peter Cullis, P-I-E-T-E-R, from UBC
and his group
built these products with in this technology.
And that was, they had it available, their choice, because they created
companies for this.
I mean, a ton of money must have been made, because they licensed it non-exclusively
to
BioNTech and Moderna.
And that's still kind of the core tech that makes this particular category of
products
work.
And so this was enough to convince you that they had solved that problem?
Yeah, I took his word at it.
I mean, he's an extremely experienced, knowledgeable liposome formulation
expert, quite senior.
He's older than me, by another decade at least, and been doing this forever.
And he asserted that he had solved the problems.
And I believed him.
I needed to travel internationally.
And also, there was this buzz going around at the time that if you had long
COVID, which
at the time, if you think back to then, there was a whole cloud over even using
the words
long COVID, that the idea that you would have these long lasting effects from
getting the
infection was controversial and not really accepted, but partially promoted.
And there was a narrative that was, you know, in retrospect, actively promoted,
that if you
took the vaccines and you and if you had this symptom of this chronic malaise
and loss of
stamina, I mean, you're a guy that's it's important to you to be physically fit.
For me, it's been important to be physically fit all my life because I've
always been a farmer
and a carpenter and worked with my hands and my body.
And I have farm chores.
I still have farm chores every day.
And I couldn't do them.
I couldn't walk up hills.
I just had lost my stamina.
I'd lost my pulmonary function.
And it wasn't getting better.
And nobody, you know, nobody knew anything about this, what was causing it,
whether it
was even real.
But I was experiencing it.
You know, there's a whole cluster of people who say there's no virus.
And there's certainly not any long COVID, but I experienced it.
So it was promoted that if you took the jab and you had this symptom, then it
would kick
your immune system up.
You get more of a response to the spike antigen and that would allow you to
clear these symptoms
of long COVID.
That turns out now we have data in just fairly recently that in fact, the
opposite is true.
So this idea of long COVID, so you got long COVID from the actual infection of
COVID-19
before the jab.
Yeah.
I got infected in late, very end of February 2020.
I was in Boston at a conference on drug discovery, computational drug discovery,
high throughput stuff, very high tech, MIT, and staying in a little firehouse
that had been converted
to a hotel right across the street from the biotech company that the initial
Boston outbreak was associated
with, and I came home sick as a dog.
I thought that I had influenza B because the narrative was that was circulating
at the time, and I was just, I remember laying in bed just feeling sick as hell,
hard to breathe.
And my wife came in, it's just been on the TV, COVID is circulating right there
in Boston where you were.
So that was pretty early on, and it hit me pretty hard.
So that would have been the Wuhan 1 variant, and then there was a couple of
genetic changes that occurred apparently 