Name: Sandra Day O'Connor's Painful Supreme Court Memory | Letterman
Uploaded: 2023-12-01T15:52:55.000Z
Description: Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Sandra Day O'Connor's Painful Supreme Court Memory | Letterman' from Letterman on Comedy Buff. Published 2023-12-01. Transcript available.

Watch the stand-up comedy video 'Sandra Day O'Connor's Painful Supreme Court Memory | Letterman' from Letterman on Comedy Buff. Published 2023-12-01. Transcript available.

Our next guest served 25 years as our nation's 102nd Supreme Court Justice and
made history as the first woman ever to hold that esteemed position and this is
her second children's book right here. It's entitled "Finding Susie." Please
welcome Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. Thank you very much. Welcome to the
program and I refer to you as Justice? Yes, that'll do. Okay. Do I call you
David? You can call me Dave, yeah.
Dave is fine. All right. Let's talk a bit about your second children's book.
What I
like about this is it comes from your own experiences as a young girl. Is that
right? Well, it does. I lived on a very remote cattle ranch in Arizona and New
Mexico. Tell people how big the ranch is. Well, it was about 300 square miles
and we
had, I had my parents and six or so cowboys to play with. Right. Anyway. That's
a
whole nother book right there. That's not this one. We won't talk about that.
Yeah. But I did
want, I rode horses a lot and they're not too cuddly. I mean, they're great to
have
and to ride, but I wanted a little pet that I could think, you know, was really
cuddly and mine. Of
my mother didn't want one in the house. So I had to get an outdoor type and I
had different wild animal
pets from the ranch area, like a little cottontail rabbit. And like, um, I
tried to make a pet of a
coyote and you just can't do it. And maybe the most successful wild animal pet
was the bobcat.
My father found it on a roundup and it was a little baby and he brought it home.
We fed
it hot milk with an eyedropper and it grew. It was big. And it was a darn good
pet. It worked fine
for years, but he finally... What did you call the bobcat? Oh, it was
a very imaginative name. Bob. It's Bob, it's Bob the bobcat. But he was a great
pet. And then finally,
he disappeared. And we were very sad. And then for a while, every night, one of
the chickens in the
hen house would disappear. And my father said, gee, I think I better stay up
and check on this. And he did. And it was Bob who was coming in nightly for a
chicken dinner.
Bob would stop by like going to KFC. And this is you as a little girl and that's
your horse. Chico. And I have a book out about Chico too. He came out of a wild
horse herd and he was a great little horse.
And now when you get a horse out of a wild horse herd, what is the process to
make them rideable?
Well, the same as with any other horse. You have to work at it for a while. You've
heard of horse whispers?
Yes. You need some good horse whispers. But they're terribly dangerous before
they've been broken.
Well, I mean, they can throw you off. But anyway, you get them gentle. And this
one was fabulous. And when I fell off, he would just wait for me to get back on.
That's unusual.
Normally, they just once they... They go back to the barn as fast as they can.
They don't want to wait around for anything. Right.
Now, it sounds to me idyllic. It sounds to me terribly romantic for a kid and
your family to have literally the wide open spaces as your front and backyard.
And you must have nothing but great memories about growing up on a ranch. I do.
It was fantastic. Yeah.
And I assumed that when I grew up, I'd be a... You know, I'd be a rancher. Mm-hmm.
And it didn't work out that way, did it?
It worked out okay. Yeah, it worked out okay.
You don't need to be hard on yourself here.
But people who live on ranches and people who are successful at ranching, and
ranching is very difficult, always been difficult, continues to be difficult.
Those people who are good at it and take to it are a certain kind of folk, don't
you think? A certain kind of person.
Well, they have to be people who can solve any problem and do anything.
We didn't have a telephone, of course, or electricity. And if something broke,
we had to fix it. Mm-hmm.
And it didn't matter if it was beautiful. It just had to work.
That's right.
And we saved all the bailing wire and all the string and all the leftover
lumber and everything. Mm-hmm.
And we just tried to make do and make things work. Absolutely. Yeah, it was a
necessity. Yes.
It was part of life, really. That's right.
And there's always many, many things to do on a ranch.
More than you can get around to.
So at some point, you decided you were interested in law school.
Well, yes. I had gone to college. Mm-hmm.
And I went to Stanford, and I took a class there from an undergraduate
professor who was a law professor.
And he was so inspiring. He was great. And because of him, I applied to law
school.
Mm-hmm. And when you got out of law school, you thought, "Well, I'm here in the
world. Let me go out and see what awaits me."
Sure. I had done well, and we had all these notices on the placement bulletin
board.
Stanford Law graduates, "Call us. We want to talk to you."
And I called them all, and they wouldn't talk to me.
I had two X chromosomes.
They wouldn't have anything to do with it.
Now, what -- what -- are we talking -- what year, roughly?
1952.
1952.
And none of those law firms had ever hired a woman lawyer.
Mm-hmm.
And they weren't prepared to even talk to me.
Yeah. You would think that a law firm might know better, even in those days.
Well, you would. Well, one of them actually said, "Well, how do you type?"
And I said, "So-so."
And the partner said, "Well, maybe, Miss Day, we could get you a job here as a
legal secretary if you can type well enough."
Oh, my goodness.
But I thought I didn't want to do that.
Yeah.
So I held off.
And I did -- my first job as a lawyer was in the county attorney's office of
San Mateo County, California.
And I had to explain to them, because they didn't have any money for a new
deputy.
I said, "I'll work for you for nothing until you persuade them you need a
little more."
And they didn't have a space for me.
And I said, "I'd put my desk in with the secretary if she was willing."
So that was my first job.
No pay.
And I put my desk in with the secretary.
Wow.
And my letters in the historical museum in San Mateo County.
I mean, did you just, from time to time later in life, call those people up and
laugh and just --
No.
What people?
What people?
The old law firm?
Oh.
No.
Well, I'll tell you.
I've made a number of speeches in my life.
And the one I had the most fun with was the 100th anniversary of the law firm
that said they wouldn't hire women, but how did I type?
So I talked at their 100th anniversary.
Oh, boy.
Now, on the --
On the Supreme Court, did you have to do a lot of typing?
Not a whole lot, actually.
I let the secretary do that.
How's that?
When you -- in this position now, when you look at your time, 25 years on the
Supreme Court, what do you think?
How does it feel to you?
Some evolution there, some -- the job that you put in.
What is your impression of things now, looking back 25 years?
I think it's an incredible institution that we have.
I think we're really fortunate in this country to have an entire branch of
government that I think overall works pretty well.
And it's an impressive place to be.
Yeah.
It's a living -- it's an organism in that it changes daily.
Yes.
And --
Well, not daily, but you have nine people who work really closely together, and
you change one.
And you don't just change a justice, you have a new court, because people work
differently together.
Right.
And yourself a change in philosophy, ideology, or just personal thought through
the years?
Or it's impossible to grow and be steadfast, isn't it?
No.
It's just that the court has to consider so many different issues over the
years, thousands of issues.
And nobody at the start of that process could possibly say what they think on
all those issues.
Mm-hmm.
You learn over time.
Right.
And I was still learning when I left.
Yeah.
Are there any that you look back and think, ooh, well, we bungled this one?
Probably so.
Yeah.
I'm not going to mention them by name.
Not going to share them.
It must have been great -- well, perhaps not.
Speak for yourself.
I would be concerned about great intimidation the first day on the job after
the appointment.
Was there for you or not?
Yes.
It was an overwhelming experience.
And I was the last justice, I think, to be sworn in at the Supreme Court itself.
And my parents were there and President and Mrs. Reagan were there.
We don't have cameras in the Supreme Court.
So every installation since has been at the White House with cameras and all
that.
So it was really special.
Right.
And when do you first meet your colleagues?
And is there fraternization with the colleagues?
Do you buddy up?
Do you go out to dinner?
Do you --
No.
What you do is see a lot of each other.
Because two weeks a month, you have oral arguments lasting a good many hours.
You're with them.
Then we have lunch together, typically, on days of oral argument or conferences.
So you see a lot of them.
And there are all kinds of functions where we're all included.
So you see your colleagues often.
And is it -- every session begins with the justices shaking hands?
Before we go on the bench, put on our robes and then go in the conference room
and every justice shakes every other justice's hand.
And that's a fabulous custom because it's hard to shake hands and then be
hostile.
Right.
I mean, it's much harder.
Right.
Anyway, it's good.
Did you -- were there people that gave you a first impression -- first
impression via the handshake?
Oh.
My first day when I did that, one of the members of the court was Byron White,
Justice White.
And he's the only justice to have been an NFL football star.
Mm-hmm.
And I put my hand out and he took it.
And I thought I was going to die on the spot.
Just die.
It was like I had put my hand in a vice.
Oh.
And I had a ring on this finger.
Oh.
And he just kept that pressure on.
And tears squirted out of my eyes.
I couldn't help it.
And it was very embarrassing.
Mm-hmm.
My first day on the court and there I am in tears.
Now, could you -- could you say anything to the guy?
Well, I said, "Uh, uh, may I -- that hurts."
And anyway, I learned what to do.
So I had to shake hands with him every time.
Give me your hand now.
I grabbed his thumb.
I see.
I could never give him my hand again.
What, uh --
He was so strong.
You know -- you know the highest court in the land.
It's the basketball court on top of the courtroom.
There is actually a basketball court above the chamber.
Yeah, it's kind of -- it's not full height, but it's right above the courtroom.
Right.
And so Justice White liked to go out and play basketball with some of the law
clerks and stuff.
Mm-hmm.
And every single year, with a new bunch of clerks, first week, one of them
would come down with a cast on.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, Justice White was just stronger than anybody could believe.
Banging him around.
Oh!
Yes.
Guy could get sued doing that kind of thing.
Oh, well.
Take him to court, for heaven's sake.
Yeah, sure.
Um, now -- now, um, you -- you must have thoughts about the, uh, the most
recent appointee or nominee,
Sonia Sotomayor.
Yes, I'm very happy that we're getting another woman on the court.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Very.
And she will, if she's confirmed, replace David Souter, is that correct?
Yes.
Yeah.
And he's, uh, leaving at a relatively younger age, isn't he?
He is.
And he's done a wonderful job.
He's a delightful man.
But, uh, he's leaving, and we're getting a new justice.
Right.
You know, it's interesting.
Our nearest neighbor is Canada.
And Canada has also a nine-member Supreme Court.
Their chief justice is a woman.
And four of the justices are female in Canada.
Mm.
And they manage pretty well.
Yeah.
Good.
Um, I didn't realize this, that even once you have stepped down, you still have
legal responsibilities.
What are those?
Well, Congress has required that a retired justice sit on the lower federal
courts.
And I've been sitting with federal courts of appeal.
Just -- Judge Sotomayor is a member of a federal court of appeals.
Mm-hmm.
It's that level of court.
And I've done a lot of it.
And every year, I have to write a certificate saying, I've done enough.
And I don't know what enough is, but I've done a lot.
There's no time allocation required.
It's just that you've got to do something.
Not precise.
But it's been a lot.
Yeah.
And you -- I know that growing up on a ranch, you love going out west and spend
a lot of time fishing.
Oh, I love to fish.
I like to fly fish when I can.
And I try to go at least once a year to Montana and catch a fish out there.
Yeah.
Or two.
Or three.
Or whatever.
Did you --
No limit.
Did you ever --
I let them go.
Catch and release.
Yeah.
Sure.
Yeah.
I catch and release also.
I catch them, I cook them up, and then I release my belt after a tasty dinner.
I don't want to embarrass you here, but a friend of mine told me one time that
you --
showed some folks how to shoot gophers.
Well, I'd like to shoot gophers.
I do.
They're kind of worthless things.
Your Honor.
It's very difficult.
It's a test of your ability because they're way out there and they stick their
heads up about that far.
So I have to take careful aim.
Okay.
All right.
No more questions, Your Honor.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, it's nice to have you here.
Thank you.
Okay.
Okay.
This is the second children's book.
You must enjoy this a great deal.
I would guess it's a matter of recalling very pleasant times and writing about
them.
Yes.
And it's called "Finding Susie."
This is Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.
Good to have you with us.
Thank you.
I would guess it's a matter of recalling very pleasant times and writing about
them.
And it's called Finding Susie.
This is Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.
Good to have you with us.
Thank you.
Have a lovely summer.
Thank you.
Okay.

Sandra Day O'Connor's Painful Supreme Court Memory | Letterman

Our next guest served 25 years as our nation's 102nd Supreme Court Justice and
made history as the first woman ever to hold that esteemed position and this is
her second children's book right here. It's entitled "Finding Susie." Please
welcome Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. Thank you very much. Welcome to the
program and I refer to you as Justice? Yes, that'll do. Okay. Do I call you
David? You can call me Dave, yeah.
Dave is fine. All right. Let's talk a bit about your second children's book.
What I
like about this is it comes from your own experiences as a young girl. Is that
right? Well, it does. I lived on a very remote cattle ranch in Arizona and New
Mexico. Tell people how big the ranch is. Well, it was about 300 square miles
and we
had, I had my parents and six or so cowboys to play with. Right. Anyway. That's
a
whole nother book right there. That's not this one. We won't talk about that.
Yeah. But I did
want, I rode horses a lot and they're not too cuddly. I mean, they're great to
have
and to ride, but I wanted a little pet that I could think, you know, was really
cuddly and mine. Of
my mother didn't want one in the house. So I had to get an outdoor type and I
had different wild animal
pets from the ranch area, like a little cottontail rabbit. And like, um, I
tried to make a pet of a
coyote and you just can't do it. And maybe the most successful wild animal pet
was the bobcat.
My father found it on a roundup and it was a little baby and he brought it home.
We fed
it hot milk with an eyedropper and it grew. It was big. And it was a darn good
pet. It worked fine
for years, but he finally... What did you call the bobcat? Oh, it was
a very imaginative name. Bob. It's Bob, it's Bob the bobcat. But he was a great
pet. And then finally,
he disappeared. And we were very sad. And then for a while, every night, one of
the chickens in the
hen house would disappear. And my father said, gee, I think I better stay up
and check on this. And he did. And it was Bob who was coming in nightly for a
chicken dinner.
Bob would stop by like going to KFC. And this is you as a little girl and that's
your horse. Chico. And I have a book out about Chico too. He came out of a wild
horse herd and he was a great little horse.
And now when you get a horse out of a wild horse herd, what is the process to
make them rideable?
Well, the same as with any other horse. You have to work at it for a while. You've
heard of horse whispers?
Yes. You need some good horse whispers. But they're terribly dangerous before
they've been broken.
Well, I mean, they can throw you off. But anyway, you get them gentle. And this
one was fabulous. And when I fell off, he would just wait for me to get back on.
That's unusual.
Normally, they just once they... They go back to the barn as fast as they can.
They don't want to wait around for anything. Right.
Now, it sounds to me idyllic. It sounds to me terribly romantic for a kid and
your family to have literally the wide open spaces as your front and backyard.
And you must have nothing but great memories about growing up on a ranch. I do.
It was fantastic. Yeah.
And I assumed that when I grew up, I'd be a... You know, I'd be a rancher. Mm-hmm.
And it didn't work out that way, did it?
It worked out okay. Yeah, it worked out okay.
You don't need to be hard on yourself here.
But people who live on ranches and people who are successful at ranching, and
ranching is very difficult, always been difficult, continues to be difficult.
Those people who are good at it and take to it are a certain kind of folk, don't
you think? A certain kind of person.
Well, they have to be people who can solve any problem and do anything.
We didn't have a telephone, of course, or electricity. And if something broke,
we had to fix it. Mm-hmm.
And it didn't matter if it was beautiful. It just had to work.
That's right.
And we saved all the bailing wire and all the string and all the leftover
lumber and everything. Mm-hmm.
And we just tried to make do and make things work. Absolutely. Yeah, it was a
necessity. Yes.
It was part of life, really. That's right.
And there's always many, many things to do on a ranch.
More than you can get around to.
So at some point, you decided you were interested in law school.
Well, yes. I had gone to college. Mm-hmm.
And I went to Stanford, and I took a class there from an undergraduate
professor who was a law professor.
And he was so inspiring. He was great. And because of him, I applied to law
school.
Mm-hmm. And when you got out of law school, you thought, "Well, I'm here in the
world. Let me go out and see what awaits me."
Sure. I had done well, and we had all these notices on the placement bulletin
board.
Stanford Law graduates, "Call us. We want to talk to you."
And I called them all, and they wouldn't talk to me.
I had two X chromosomes.
They wouldn't have anything to do with it.
Now, what -- what -- are we talking -- what year, roughly?
1952.
1952.
And none of those law firms had ever hired a woman lawyer.
Mm-hmm.
And they weren't prepared to even talk to me.
Yeah. You would think that a law firm might know better, even in those days.
Well, you would. Well, one of them actually said, "Well, how do you type?"
And I said, "So-so."
And the partner said, "Well, maybe, Miss Day, we could get you a job here as a
legal secretary if you can type well enough."
Oh, my goodness.
But I thought I didn't want to do that.
Yeah.
So I held off.
And I did -- my first job as a lawyer was in the county attorney's office of
San Mateo County, California.
And I had to explain to them, because they didn't have any money for a new
deputy.
I said, "I'll work for you for nothing until you persuade them you need a
little more."
And they didn't have a space for me.
And I said, "I'd put my desk in with the secretary if she was willing."
So that was my first job.
No pay.
And I put my desk in with the secretary.
Wow.
And my letters in the historical museum in San Mateo County.
I mean, did you just, from time to time later in life, call those people up and
laugh and just --
No.
What people?
What people?
The old law firm?
Oh.
No.
Well, I'll tell you.
I've made a number of speeches in my life.
And the one I had the most fun with was the 100th anniversary of the law firm
that said they wouldn't hire women, but how did I type?
So I talked at their 100th anniversary.
Oh, boy.
Now, on the --
On the Supreme Court, did you have to do a lot of typing?
Not a whole lot, actually.
I let the secretary do that.
How's that?
When you -- in this position now, when you look at your time, 25 years on the
Supreme Court, what do you think?
How does it feel to you?
Some evolution there, some -- the job that you put in.
What is your impression of things now, looking back 25 years?
I think it's an incredible institution that we have.
I think we're really fortunate in this country to have an entire branch of
government that I think overall works pretty well.
And it's an impressive place to be.
Yeah.
It's a living -- it's an organism in that it changes daily.
Yes.
And --
Well, not daily, but you have nine people who work really closely together, and
you change one.
And you don't just change a justice, you have a new court, because people work
differently together.
Right.
And yourself a change in philosophy, ideology, or just personal thought through
the years?
Or it's impossible to grow and be steadfast, isn't it?
No.
It's just that the court has to consider so many different issues over the
years, thousands of issues.
And nobody at the start of that process could possibly say what they think on
all those issues.
Mm-hmm.
You learn over time.
Right.
And I was still learning when I left.
Yeah.
Are there any that you look back and think, ooh, well, we bungled this one?
Probably so.
Yeah.
I'm not going to mention them by name.
Not going to share them.
It must have been great -- well, perhaps not.
Speak for yourself.
I would be concerned about great intimidation the first day on the job after
the appointment.
Was there for you or not?
Yes.
It was an overwhelming experience.
And I was the last justice, I think, to be sworn in at the Supreme Court itself.
And my parents were there and President and Mrs. Reagan were there.
We don't have cameras in the Supreme Court.
So every installation since has been at the White House with cameras and all
that.
So it was really special.
Right.
And when do you first meet your colleagues?
And is there fraternization with the colleagues?
Do you buddy up?
Do you go out to dinner?
Do you --
No.
What you do is see a lot of each other.
Because two weeks a month, you have oral arguments lasting a good many hours.
You're with them.
Then we have lunch together, typically, on days of oral argument or conferences.
So you see a lot of them.
And there are all kinds of functions where we're all included.
So you see your colleagues often.
And is it -- every session begins with the justices shaking hands?
Before we go on the bench, put on our robes and then go in the conference room
and every justice shakes every other justice's hand.
And that's a fabulous custom because it's hard to shake hands and then be
hostile.
Right.
I mean, it's much harder.
Right.
Anyway, it's good.
Did you -- were there people that gave you a first impression -- first
impression via the handshake?
Oh.
My first day when I did that, one of the members of the court was Byron White,
Justice White.
And he's the only justice to have been an NFL football star.
Mm-hmm.
And I put my hand out and he took it.
And I thought I was going to die on the spot.
Just die.
It was like I had put my hand in a vice.
Oh.
And I had a ring on this finger.
Oh.
And he just kept that pressure on.
And tears squirted out of my eyes.
I couldn't help it.
And it was very embarrassing.
Mm-hmm.
My first day on the court and there I am in tears.
Now, could you -- could you say anything to the guy?
Well, I said, "Uh, uh, may I -- that hurts."
And anyway, I learned what to do.
So I had to shake hands with him every time.
Give me your hand now.
I grabbed his thumb.
I see.
I could never give him my hand again.
What, uh --
He was so strong.
You know -- you know the highest court in the land.
It's the basketball court on top of the courtroom.
There is actually a basketball court above the chamber.
Yeah, it's kind of -- it's not full height, but it's right above the courtroom.
Right.
And so Justice White liked to go out and play basketball with some of the law
clerks and stuff.
Mm-hmm.
And every single year, with a new bunch of clerks, first week, one of them
would come down with a cast on.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, Justice White was just stronger than anybody could believe.
Banging him around.
Oh!
Yes.
Guy could get sued doing that kind of thing.
Oh, well.
Take him to court, for heaven's sake.
Yeah, sure.
Um, now -- now, um, you -- you must have thoughts about the, uh, the most
recent appointee or nominee,
Sonia Sotomayor.
Yes, I'm very happy that we're getting another woman on the court.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Very.
And she will, if she's confirmed, replace David Souter, is that correct?
Yes.
Yeah.
And he's, uh, leaving at a relatively younger age, isn't he?
He is.
And he's done a wonderful job.
He's a delightful man.
But, uh, he's leaving, and we're getting a new justice.
Right.
You know, it's interesting.
Our nearest neighbor is Canada.
And Canada has also a nine-member Supreme Court.
Their chief justice is a woman.
And four of the justices are female in Canada.
Mm.
And they manage pretty well.
Yeah.
Good.
Um, I didn't realize this, that even once you have stepped down, you still have
legal responsibilities.
What are those?
Well, Congress has required that a retired justice sit on the lower federal
courts.
And I've been sitting with federal courts of appeal.
Just -- Judge Sotomayor is a member of a federal court of appeals.
Mm-hmm.
It's that level of court.
And I've done a lot of it.
And every year, I have to write a certificate saying, I've done enough.
And I don't know what enough is, but I